The Door to Hell – Burning Gas Crater in Darvaza, Turkmenistan

There are several places around the world that locals believe are a door to hell. Endless catacombs beneath the city of Paris, France for example or Dimmuborgir lava formations in Iceland. When it comes to sheer jaw-dropping effect, however, The Door to Hell by Darvaza in Turkmenistan takes the cake. I would also classify Darvaza as one of the places that should be on the must-visit list of every serious explorer who likes to visit Earth’s most breath-taking sites. Darvaza is a gas crater the burning gates of which have been flaming for upwards of 37 years.

The Door to Hell in Turkmenistan, Photo

The Door to Hell in Turkmenistan, Photo

Darvaza Burning Gas Crater

Turkmenistan is very rich in natural resources. Currently a sovereign country, Turkmenistan was part of the Soviet Union until 1991. It was during rule of Soviet Russia, back in 1971 when geologists were conducting gas drilling in Kara-Kum desert and discovered an underground chamber close to the village of Darvaza (known in Turkmen as Derweze, but sometimes also referred to as Darvaz). The discovery of the chamber was accidental and resulted in drilling rig collapsing, leaving giant gas crater filled with poisonous gases exposed to the world outside. The concentration of gases within the crater was high so nobody dared to go down there. It was then when someone came with an idea to light the gas in the crater on fire so as to burn it before the poisonous fumes engulf the nearby town of Darvaza.

The geologists thought the idea of burning the gas was smart and went ahead with lighting the crater on fire. As it turns out, the supply of quality natural gas below the crater is near infinite as the crater’s been burning since. At the time of this post, on June of 2009 the gas crater in Darvaza is still burning and has been since 1971 without interruption. No one can even imagine how much quality natural gas was burnt throughout the 38 years of the crater being on fire. No one can estimate how much more gas there still is. When they first lit the gas crater on fire, they thought the fire would go out after a few days. It’s been more than a few day, it’s been more than a few weeks or months. It’s been decades and the gas crater is burning just as it did the day it was first lit. Putting all economical loses from wasted natural gas aside, imagine the ecological impact this burning gas has cause during decades of non stop burning!

Darvaza Gas Crater at Night with Silhouettes of People

Darvaza Gas Crater at Night with Silhouettes of People

The Door to Hell

The locals from Darvaza have given the burning crater a name that suits it well – The Door to Hell. And everyone who visits Darvaza agrees with the name and finds it appropriate. When you look inside the burning gas crater, you do feel like this is what the door to hell would look like. No one dared to enter the chamber when it was first discovered and no one has dared there since. After all, everyone knows what kind of path a door o hell takes you. And it’s not the path anyone would voluntarily want to embark on. Seeing the door to hell with your own eyes, however is an experience like no other. You will have long stayed in awe after experiencing the viciousness of the fire within the gorge of the burning crater. The Door to Hell would be an amazing vacation experience for the adventurous wonderers. This is a vacation idea that your mainstream tour operators don’t know about. And that’s the beauty of it.

Darvaza The Burning Gates Gas Hole in Turkmenistan

Darvaza The Burning Gates Gas Hole in Turkmenistan

Darvaza Location

Darvaza is located in Turkmenistan but many sources mistakenly mention that it’s located in Uzbekistan. Uzbekistan is a country next to Turkmenistan and Darvaza is definitely not located there. Which is a good thing as there have been travel warnings for Uzbekistan for a long time, urging all travelers to avoid the country due to high risks of terrorist attacks and/or civil disturbances. But Uzbekistan is not where Darvaza is.

Darvaza and the burning gas crater are located in the central area of Turkmenistan, about 260 km north of Turkmenistan’s capital city Ashgabat. Check out the location of Darvaza on the interactive map below:

Is Turkmenistan Safe to Travel to?

Turkmenistan is located in the Middle East (Central Asia) and is surrounded by countries such as Afghanistan or Iran, which are known for frequent terrorist attacks, war, kidnapping and other crime against tourists. Despite proximities to war zones, the US Bureau of Consular Affairs has no warnings for Turkmenistan at this time, other than a recommendation to exercise normal degree of caution and keep aware of your surroundings at all times. For US Department of State Travel Website with more info and more up to date travel warnings, click HERE.

Canadian Foreign Affairs and International Trade Office however warns that tourists to Turkmenistan should exercise HIGH degree of caution based on sporadic clashes that occurred in September of 2008 in the outskirts of Ashgabat in the northern district of Khitrovka. For Canadian Foreign Affairs and International Trade Website with more info on Turkmenistan and more up to date travel warning, click HERE.

Despite its proximity to war zones and a violent clash from a year ago (which country hasn’t had one like that) Turkmenistan seems like a reasonably safe country to travel to at this time. Unless situation changes dramatically, the regions around Darvaza appear safe and friendly. A tourist should however always remain cautious and don’t needlessly attract attention on to themselves. Don’t show off and don’t walk desolate streets alone at night. Just general personal safety advice that should be in place no matter where you’re travelling to.

The Door to Hell Video

Darvaza The Burning Gas Hole Photo Gallery

Darvaza the Burning Gates Image

Darvaza the Burning Gates Image

Pic of the Door to Hell in Darvaza, Turkmenistan

Pic of the Door to Hell in Darvaza, Turkmenistan

Photo Source: English Russia

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340 Responses to “The Door to Hell – Burning Gas Crater in Darvaza, Turkmenistan”

  1. Mike Says:

    I just went here last weekend and it was amazing. The place we completely deserted and we camped out near the crater. You could still hear the hiss of the burning gas from almost half a mile away. I really like your geo coding too – wish we would have used that before we drove out there.

  2. website Says:

    >The Door to Hell "Gas crater burning for 37 years" sounds far more scary and fascinating than introducing religious terminology in a discussion about human folly and a marvel of nature.

  3. malcolm Says:

    why don,t the enviornmentalists lobby to put that fire out?must be devastating to the ozone.

  4. Strudlekakes Says:

    Well if they put it out it will ustabalize the cave and most likeley cave in.

  5. SaigonStyle Says:

    They could still cap it. put it out by sufficating the fire then cap it. It would be more of a ++ for us then bad.

  6. SaigonStyle Says:

    Even if it does cave in they could still put it to some use. 😉

  7. malcolm Says:

    Not much wonder we can,t stay in the sun long without getting skin cancer.Reminds me of the oil wells in Iraq being set on fire.Not much reverance toward the enviornment or future generations.Where is Al Gore on this?

  8. Malcolm Says:

    where,s Al Gore?

  9. brian Says:

    lmao…al gore? He’s such a fake.

  10. Wally Says:

    Methane is a much more serious greenhouse gas than CO2. Burning Methane rather than venting it is better in terms of greenhouse effects..

  11. malcolm Says:

    Thanks for clearing that up wally.I wonder if they have any good ideas for trying to cap the gases.

  12. Arthur Says:

    This looks like the perfect area for a landfill. It is an area that needs to be filled in and will burn the waste at the same time.

  13. Darvaza Door to Hell Says:

    Good call, Arthur. Unfortunately I don’t see that happening as Darvaza is one of few tourist attraction in Turkmenistan. Putting it to good use and saving environment would deter potential tourists who bring foreign currency in. Who cares about environment if they can grease up their own pockets, right?

  14. Smoky Says:

    Ahh well, as a geologist I can tell you that natural gas escapes into the atmosphere all the time, there nothing you can do about it. If the gas hadn’t been set on fire, it would have escaped to the surface through natural fractures in the rock anyway. It’s nature, get used to it. Al Gore. Ha!

  15. Bob Says:

    Good call Arthur, fill it full of burning garbage and really pollute the world! Natural gas is about the cleanest burning thing on earth, so let it burn! It would be virtually impossible to cap it anyway and if you put it out, the H2S would be by far a bigger problem!

  16. ekiesan Says:

    Is there any way to use the energy being created. I see it as one of earth’s pressure release valves. Plug it up and something just might erupt. I wouldn’t mess with it. Don’t mess with Mother Nature.

  17. Shirley Theis Says:

    They say that good intentions pave the way to hell. Let’s pretend that Al Gore has good intentions and tell him to take a walk

  18. James Dunn Says:

    Should have been used to process other fuels. Cheap oil products refinery.

  19. James Dunn Says:

    Could have been used to produce steam, anybody seen a steam engine lately

  20. Ralph Abernathy Says:

    Good call, Shirley Theis… Let’s tell Al Gore where to take that walk – then maybe he could explain to the hole why it is such a bad thing.

  21. Alien Says:

    Leaving a flammable gas escape freely in atmosphere could be very risky. It could accumulate in such quantities that it could suffocate entire villages, or ignite and provoke terrific explosions . Therefore, the idea of burning it is not so wild.

    Nevertheless, the CO2 pollution it has generated in decades is enormous. I guess it can be compared to a HUGE power plant, and these are by far the most polluting industries on earth (apart cars, which are not easily quantifiable).

    Extinguishing such flames is extremely difficult and very risky. Supposing flames are extinguished, and the escaping gas does not ignite anymore (this is another huge risk), it is not possible to seal the gas by simply filling the hole – it would escape from surrounding rock.

    I do not know if the gas source can be sealed, but let’s think about big oil companies. They are constantly searching for oil and gas. This location has lots of gas: why don’t they seal the crater and extract the gas? It should be either impossible or very expensive and not worth the try…

  22. Kessani Says:

    Has anyone tried to distinguish the created fire? There must be a way to distinguish!

  23. SeeAych4 Says:

    Yes, it could be nominated for the distinguished service award and then set up in a business selling fire distinguishers.

  24. Dayzee Says:

    I call this a man made disaster. As beautiful and interesting as it is this hole needs to be stopped from burning. The heat from it must be contributing to the environmental impact on global warming. Instead of having expensive non-solution meetings in Copenhagen they should be trying to reach a solution on how to stop this thing. I’m no scientist but have always believed in the simplist solutions to big problems. Has anyone thought to fill it in with the surrounding sand by using bulldozers to push it up and into the pit. Sounds reasonable, would it work????

  25. TexasFreedom Says:

    Why does everyone look at this as a problem?! Let it burn. Global warming…that is about as fake as liberals themselves. Over 2000 years of fires and man made catashophies and guess what, the Earth is still here! Next ya’ll will want to be trying to figure out how to plug Old Faithful!

  26. Clairvoyant Says:

    Americans landing on the moon – that was fake. Global warming isn’t.

  27. orneryolbiker Says:

    It is impossible to have a battle of wits with unarmed people. Holy Crap

  28. Steve Says:

    Obviously the thing to do is put this fire to work producing electricity. In a few years you could build a state-of-the-art power plant right there at the site.

  29. Dee clark Says:

    How ’bout a weenie roast? Marshmallows? Kabob ???

  30. JP Says:

    You guys are a hoot. Without knowing how much longer the darn thing is burning it is hard to create an energy capture scenario but it certainly seems like a waste of natural/unnatural energy!!!

  31. David Says:

    From the comments it is evident that Americans rank among the stupidest and most scientifically illiterate people on the planet.

    Don’t worry, I won’t waste my time attempting to educate you. An education would be lost on you people.

    Best to leave the stupid to their talk radio and fox news. Delusions never die.

  32. freebird Says:

    Anybody seen a overhead photo or heard how deep it is ??

  33. John Says:

    Quote: “From the comments it is evident that Americans rank among the stupidest and most scientifically illiterate people on the planet.”

    Comments like these are the basis for shouting down those that don’t bow to the new religions… um… sciences… like global warming (and whacking the not-so-beloved Americans). These are incredibly weak arguments (if it can be called an argument at all) which influence only the weak minded.

    It’s fascinating that just as the planet cools, the argument shifts to “climate change” (from global warming). The arguments sometimes change to fit the fact and sometimes do not. There are plenty of fools to buy any bill of goods either way.

    Schizophrenia prevails in those uninformed. The folks that know better either deny the lies or benefit from them.

    Getting back to “stupid Americans”… It’s understandable that parts of the “non-American world” would criticize Americans. If Americans were not responsible for the most powerful and influential country in the world, there would be no reason to criticize. Many Americans would likely be honored to hear your hollow rant.

  34. David Says:

    Hello John,

    The moment that you conflate religion and science you reveal your own glaring scientific illiteracy.

    Are there any conservatives who are educated?

    The claim that the planet is cooling is a lie, nothing more. Please educate yourself.

    Your patriotic claim that America is the best doesn’t coincide with America being the Welfare Queen of nations living on money borrowed from communist China. America is a has-been nation with millions of stupid, uneducated, scientifically illiterate patriots claiming to be the best people in the world contrary to all the evidence otherwise.

  35. John Says:

    I’m not conflating. Global warming has become religion (to my dismay). You make my point.

    Whether the planet is warming or not is not the real issue. I mention it only to point out that no matter what evidence is presented, a new “statue of worship” emerges (“climate change”).

    The issue often ignored is “what is causing what?”. Many would like to believe that the evil human is devastating the planet and therefor causing the planet to “have a fever”. The specific argument is that increased CO2 emissions cause the planet to get warmer (most agree that there is some correlation between rising CO2 and rising temps). It is convenient but not logical to assume that the CO2 is causing warming. It must be considered that a warmer planet may be causing the presence of more CO2: http://motls.blogspot.com/2006/07/carbon-dioxide-and-temperatures-ice.html.

    Further, the timing of rising temperatures and higher concentrations of CO2 don’t “conveniently” correlate well with what is assumed to be the causes (power generation, automobiles, etc.) of CO2.

    Making the leap from my assertion that “America is the most powerful and influential country in the world” to your “[Americans] claiming to be the best people in the world” remark supports why you’re not good for your own cause (or any cause), but it is consistent with the logic used to support man made global warming arguments.

    To understand what happens financially if global warming alarmists get their way is extremely telling. It’s all about wealth re-distribution. I’m sorry to be the one to inform you, but that makes you a pawn… a pawn waving a lance at a windmill.

  36. David Says:

    John,

    I really would like to make sense out of that incoherent mess of an argument you wrote … but cannot.

    It seems that you are conceding that global warming is occurring, though. Is that correct?

    Also, about “wealth redistribution” … are you really so stupid as to not realize that as a nation with $12 trillion in debt all of your wealth has already been redistributed to the Third World, China and the oil producing nations? You are impoverished and you don’t even know it.

    You aren’t going to like the future very much. The future isn’t going to treat you kindly.

  37. John Says:

    There have been accusations of stupidity in all three of your posts without substantiation. Intelligent discourse and debate should be absent of wrecklessly lobbed insults.

    Everyone agrees that the planet has had warmer and cooler periods in all of it’s history. The premise is that humans must be responsible. It’s been cooler lately. Have the last 6 years been anecdotal or is the relationship between CO2 and warming not understood? Why accept the premise? It must be proven like any scientific conclusion. If we’re guessing let’s at least be honest with ourselves and admit that.

    By definition, scientific conclusions must be verifiable. If the folks that are drawing the conclusions won’t share their data or their methods (they won’t), we are left to conclude there is intent other than science at play. There may be many reasons a scientists would want to hide his data and/or methods. None of them are good. Further muddying the water is the “climate gate” controversy. It appears there is a smoking gun for intentional deception. This angers everyone and will probably cause both sides to more deeply entrench in their positions.

    The argument is no longer about science. It’s pure politics. If that’s an accepted notion… follow the money.

    I’ll agree with you that the US is doing a slam bang job of increasing it’s indebtedness. The current regime in the US seems dead set on it. China is in a connondrum. They don’t like the debt the US is piling up yet they don’t want to destabilize the system they’re hoping will pay them back. Be careful what you (apparently) wish for. If the US “craters” financially (and they may), the world will pay a dear price. The Chinese are smart enough to realize this and “calling” their loans is not prudent from their selfish perspective.

  38. David Says:

    Hello John,

    The correct spelling isn’t “wrecklessly” so I am going to assume that the accusation of stupidity has been confirmed.

    You say, “Everyone agrees that the planet has had warmer and cooler periods in all of it’s history. The premise is that humans must be responsible. ”

    I must ask: Responsible for what? You must clarify your opinion regarding the heating or cooling of the Earth because you seem to argue on both sides of this issue.

    You say, “Have the last 6 years been anecdotal or is the relationship between CO2 and warming not understood? ”
    I say: Here is further confirmation of your scientific illiteracy and stupidity. Please do educate yourself about science as it will help you avoid sounding foolish in the future.

    You say, “By definition, scientific conclusions must be verifiable. If the folks that are drawing the conclusions won’t share their data or their methods (they won’t) … ”

    I say that you are a dittohead drone who evidently knows nothing whatsoever about the scientific method. Please do educate yourself so that you might avoid this sort of stupidity in the future.

    You say, “Further muddying the water is the “climate gate” controversy.It appears there is a smoking gun for intentional deception. ”

    I say: You don’t even know what you are talking about and you will reject all of science because of your lack of education and gullibility.

    You say, “The argument is no longer about science. It’s pure politics. If that’s an accepted notion… follow the money. ”

    I say: You know, polluters earn billions of dollars every year. They can afford anti-science propaganda and slanderous lies in order to deceive the stupid public who would rather not know science or accept reality.

    You say, “Be careful what you (apparently) wish for. If the US “craters” financially (and they may), the world will pay a dear price. ”

    I say: The British Empire and Soviet Union collapsed and the world was fine. Don’t overestimate your importance because the world can live without you. China will dump the USA when it will best serve its own purposes. You are going to lose everything and you will suffer immensely.

    Too bad for you. You earned it.

  39. TexasFreedom Says:

    Sounds like david needs to get the hell out of Florida and move back where he came from since the USA doesn’t suit him!! I’m sure myself and a lot of other veterans can get him a plane ticket!

  40. orneryolbiker Says:

    I’d throw a buck in.

  41. David Says:

    Hello TexesFreedom,

    Poor Texan, doesn’t your governor want to secede from the Union because he loves pandering to teabagging racists who cannot stand the thought of a non-white President?

    Texas isn’t patriotic. Texas is a Christian fundamentalist corrupt oil theocracy.

    If I had my choice, I’d give you back to Mexico as reparations for the aggressive criminal war, the Mexican – American War. The Americans were the original illegal immigrants and they seized that territory illegally.

    Too bad Mexico didn’t build a wall or prevent illegal immigrants from occupying and stealing their land.

  42. John Says:

    It is not good for a person to have a bug up their bum so deep that they lash out at everyone. It consumes too much energy and you’ll lose all your teeth at a young age.
    Take a deep breath and try to see what’s good around you.
    I’m in for at least a buck.

  43. David Says:

    Hello John,

    Ignorance is bliss … as the uneducated teabaggers demonstrate every day. Except they really don’t seem so happy as much as they seem desperately clinging to their delusions as they prefer a 19th century mindset to scientific reality.

  44. Ally Says:

    Well David, my opinion probably doesn’t count since I’m just an ‘uneducated teabagger’ but if the U.S is so terrible then how about you go somewhere else?
    I’ve noticed that while you keep hurling insults, you don’t do any debunking of the ideas that you’re insulting. So instead of calling people names why don’t you say something worthwhile.

    p.s calling someone ‘delusional’ and ‘uneducated’ doesn’t make you any smarter. But please, David. Educate me.

  45. David Says:

    Hello Ally,

    Well, Ally, I don’t much respect your opinions or your so-called patriotism since you pollute the planet and destroy America’s future which your lifestyle, unsustainable and already bankrupt.

    As far as debunking the ideas expressed by these uneducated delusional teabaggers, it is impossible to educate the willfully ignorant. If these conservative idiots won’t heed the conclusions of science they aren’t going to heed anyone’s arguments.

    So keep on waving the flag while you piss on the flag with your pollution and unsustainable lifestyle. God wants you to pollute the Earth because he did create the planet to serve as your own special sewer.

  46. Ally Says:

    Let me guess, David. You’re an organic vegan and your carbon footprint is miniscule? Spare me. You believe that you are on some moral high ground when you are simply one of the sad individuals who reaps the benifits and freedoms of living in the U.S while simultaniously bashing it. In essence, you are a parasite who isn’t grateful to it’s host. A leech, if you may.

    But please, this is the internet and not every internet stranger has to has to agree with your idiocy. Please go and suck up some other countries resources.

  47. David Sucks Says:

    David, your comments are stupid…just like you.

  48. David Says:

    Ally says …
    * “Let me guess, David. You’re an organic vegan and your carbon footprint is miniscule? ”
    Teabaggers should refrain from guessing since they evidently aren’t intelligent enough to actually think.
    Ally says …
    * “You believe that you are on some moral high ground when you are simply one of the sad individuals who reaps the benifits and freedoms of living in the U.S while simultaniously bashing it. ”
    Oh my, yes, the patriotic teabaggers are showing their love and appreciation to their own country by pissing on the flag with their pollution and destroying America’s future. Your grandchildren will love you so very much!
    * “In essence, you are a parasite who isn’t grateful to it’s host. A leech, if you may.”
    This is precisely the conservative condition relative to the environment which makes their life possible. Instead of loving that thing which makes their life possible they piss on the Earth and wish to leave the planet in order to conquer space. Earth would be happy to get rid of you, too, and it will … but not by you leaving to conquer space, instead Nature will get rid of you by extinction.
    * “But please, this is the internet and not every internet stranger has to has to agree with your idiocy. Please go and suck up some other countries resources. ”
    What an ironic thing for a conservative to say while you borrow trillions from China and steal the resources of Venezuela, Nigeria and Iraq. Conservatives are so stupid that they imagine that they are doing the world a favor by living like fools with their oil addiction, consumerism and morbid obesity.

  49. o3 Says:

    “David”

    Dave if I may, I feel as though I know you through the vitriol of your posts. I’d like to congratulate you on your rhetorical masturbation. You hurl insults and infer your intellectual superiority to that of the forum without proffering up anything other than your opinion. “John” has done a solid job of substantiating his side of the discussion and your reply hindges on the misspelling of one word. Outstanding…you really told him.

    Your consistant replies to those who do not share your outlook indicates you like the attention. Once again, congratulations! You’ve made it, you’re someone!! You are now the Paris Hilton of this thread, so please enjoy the 15 minutes of notiriety you so desperately crave while the rest of us get back to civil discourse.

    Cheers

  50. David Says:

    Hello o3,

    * “John” has done a solid job of substantiating his side of the discussion … ”
    Scientific illiterates complimenting each other still doesn’t amount to much more than obstinate ignorance on parade. Hey, is John the one and only John Galt?
    * “Your consistant replies to those who do not share your outlook indicates you like the attention. ”
    Wow … I thought my consistent replies were written specifically because someone had responded to me. Someone should read through these comments and check that theory out.

  51. o3 Says:

    Dave,

    How clever of you to play the Ayn Rand card, that’s the best you can do? You Still offer nothing in the way of science, data or information to refute anything put forward by the scientific illiterates. We’re waiting…

    Cheers

  52. David Says:

    Hello o3,

    I enjoy playing the Ayn Rand card. There’s nothing that an uneducated teabagger loves more than Ayn Rand. They love that atheist with a passion which they otherwise reserve for Jesus.
    You want science, data and information? If you people really wanted that you wouldn’t remain ignorant scientific illiterates. You people are ignorant by choice because otherwise you’d have to deal with unpleasant realities.

  53. Ally Says:

    Dave, Dave, Dave. Dear, I’m still waiting to be educated. Along with everyone else, I’m getting tired of you consistantly calling us ‘illerates’ when you offer no new information to ‘educate’ us with. Simply because someones’ opinion differs from yours does not make them ignorant, that’s the joy of debate. But if you could offer up some information with your claims that we are’ willfully ignorant’, then I might accept that name. Also, can you think of no other insult but ‘teabaggers’? It’s really getting old. And like my friend 03 said, you are a mental masturbater. You probably think that you are so clever and witty when all you are doing is throwing around names and trying to make youself look intellegent to internet strangers. You are getting boring, poppet.

    My question still remains; if the U.S is such a horrible place filled with terrible people pissing on the flag, why haven’t you left? Oh, and when the world ends, it’s taking you with it. Not just us ‘conservative teabaggers’.

  54. o3 Says:

    Dave, Davo, Davarama, D-fuego,

    Come on you can do it, we’re all rootin’ for you. A fact, just one fact.

    Cheers

  55. Ally Says:

    *Snicker* D-fuego.

  56. David Says:

    Hello Ally,

    Why haven’t I left the USA? Because, remember, your side lost. This is the reason why so many conservatives have been wishing to secede from the Union … they love America so much that they’d abandon the country simply because a non-white person is President.
    Too bad for you. You are a politically irrelevant minority now … the 19th century mindset party, anti-science, anti-reason, anti-progress, anti-Nature and anti-Life.
    Your side lost and South Carolina and Texas both hinted that they would replay the Civil War scenario. Your side lost and your own people threatened treason against the government, violence against census takers, and a desire to get out your guns and play the happiness-isi-a-warm-gun game.
    So don’t talk to me about patriotism because you aren’t authentic patriots.

  57. Dylan Says:

    Just came across this thread by accident, and thought that since David wasn’t up to answering John’s spurious arguments, I’d at least throw one level-headed response in the ring.

    John seems to claim that the last six years have been a period of global cooling. (Sorry if I’ve got that wrong, but it’s a common skeptic argument, so that’s what I’ll assume you meant.)

    This argument hinges around the fact that 1998 was a very warm year, and some of the years since 1998 (especially 1999 and 2000) have been cooler than 1998.

    Overall trends are still towards global warming, and cherry-picking a single year to use as your baseline is a bit disingenuous, though several prominent skeptics have tried it. Starting out with practically any other year, or looking at any other period, shows a warming trend, one which is getting more distinct, the further we move from 1998. Incidentally, 2005 was warmer than 1998.

    Hope that helps.

  58. Dylan Says:

    Back again. Since John was kind enough to post a link for one of his arguments (about whether CO2 rise causes global warming, or whether it is caused by global warming) I thought I should respond to that too.

    Research presently indicates that when ice ages end, there is generally a period of warming at the beginning of the end that lasts for about 800 years, in which time there is not much extra CO2 in the atmosphere. After that time, CO2 that is sequestered under antarctic ice or in the depths of the ocean, starts to escape, and participate in a climate feedback loop which generally lasts for about another 5000 years.

    In this scenario, the initial rise in temperatures is not associated with CO2. Perhaps the earth has shifted in its orbit (which happens every 21000 years or so) or there has been some other event which has caused warming.

    However, scientists are in pretty much universal agreement that once the feedback loop of released CO2 begins, the climate is in for a long few thousand years of sustained higher temperatures, at least partially driven by the presence of extra CO2 in the atmosphere.

    What this means in our present crisis is rather worrying. We have not yet seen the release of sequestered CO2 from our environment during this warming cycle. If that happens, it probably doesn’t matter much (in my opinion) what measures we take to reduce emissions, as the genie will be out of the bottle.

    Here’s my counter-link to John’s link above: http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/04/the-lag-between-temp-and-co2/

    It’s a bit technical, but I think it does a good job in explaining why present climate science considers the argument that CO2 rises are caused by global warming as a problematic meme. Note that this isn’t a new argument. There are articles and assertions going back at least to 2004 and earlier (John’s link is a 2006 post, mine is 2007) but as far as climate scientists are concerned, the evidence still supports the theory that CO2 rise is both caused by and causes environmental warming.

    Hope that helps.

  59. David Says:

    Hello Dylan,

    * “Just came across this thread by accident, and thought that since David wasn’t up to answering John’s spurious arguments, I’d at least throw one level-headed response in the ring. ”
    Wasn’t up to answering John’s argument … do you know what the Bible says about answering a fool in his own folly.
    If conservatives were honest and scientifically literate enough to respond to reasoned arguments there wouldn’t be any need for this extreme effort.
    The conservatives aren’t interested in science. Any effort along that line is wasted … just as it would be if you happened to find yourself engaged with a creationist or a flood geologist.

  60. Ally Says:

    Dear, sweet, David. My side lost? Are you assuming that I live in the South? You know what they say about assuming. Well, I live in niether Texas or South Carolina and have nothing against a non-white president. See that argument might work if I was white myself. I don’t have an issue with race, I have an issue with ignorance. I am still waiting for your great wealth of knowlege. You have niether informed nor educated. You believe that if you call someone stupid that they are, just because you said it. You cannot call me willfully ignorant any more, because this whole time I have been asking for some small peice, some shred, an iota of whatever great knowledge you could bequeath me. I’m a well educated woman, Davey. Simply because you say I’m ignorant doesn’t make it so.

    Oh, it makes me laugh that you bash so much on the south, yet you live in Florida. Instead of blogging perhaps you shold go back to taking pictures of birds and otters. At least they can stand for your babbling.

  61. David Says:

    Hello Ally,

    You can say whatever you wish about your location and your political affiliation since it is quite easy for people to lie on the internet about their own self. What is quite certain, though, is that you have a anti-science teabagger mindset, which is the mindset Christian fundamentalist creationist and pro-pollution zealots.

    In regardings to demanding some knowledge … knowledge would be wasted on you and your type. Conservatives are anti-science, anti-knowledge and anti-life.

    If you were at all familiar with the demographics of Florida you would know that Florida isn’t a Southern state. When people talk about the South they don’t have Florida in mind. Instead they are thinking about the states which actively participated in the Civil War and remain bitter in their loss.

    The birds and otters can stand my babbling because they are a lot more intelligent than you. There is no animal more miserable than the human animal.

  62. Angie Says:

    Happy New Year to all of you guys. Let’s not forget that this topic is about Darvaza well, shell we :)

  63. Ally Says:

    Dave, darling. It’s obvious that you are just as miserable as the rest of us ‘conservative, teabagging, creatins’. As o3 said, have fun with your 15 minutes of internet fame, Paris. Happy New Year. Have fun with your furry creatures.

  64. David Says:

    Hello Ally,

    The misery which is present in humankind relates to human nature, fatally flawed since the beginning. As I said, the birds and the otters are not afflicted by humankind’s fatal flaw.
    Human misery will end when humankind goes extinct. This is one reason why humankind’s stupid reckless behavior is rightfully considered suicidal. Humankind hates life and prefers violence, destruction and death to peace, contentment and happiness.
    Conservatives are anti-life, anti-peace, anti-Nature, anti-God and anti-survival.
    Needless to say, the animals are a lot better and a lot wiser than you. Humans work really hard at unhappiness and for that sake they treat the planet like a sewer and are an existential threat to All-Life, Nature and humankind.
    But don’t take my word for it … listen to God’s honest evaluation of the species in Genesis 6:5-6.

  65. Kanter Says:

    Hello.

    You lost me when the debate drifted towards politico-esoteric comments and the place of USA in the world.

    This is just besides the point.

    Geologically and technically speaking:

    This fire could probably been extinguished and this quite easily. Problem… There would be plenty of gas escaping from the hole. And most of it would be CH4 (methane or natural gas, the one that kills people when it leaks in our cities) and H2S (hydrogen sulphur the one that produces sulphuric acid when disolved in water (like in clouds…)

    Some are having great thoughts… Cap the hole… Unfortunately, it’s a bit like trying to hold water in a sieve. Even with nowadays technologies, it is very unlikely to be possible.

    Use the energy to produce power or anything else… Great idea, and what for? the main problem of power is transport and storage not really production. Producing power in the middle of the Kara-kum desert. To power what? Who?

    Try to use the gas: technically speaking, shallow gas reservoirs are nearly impossible to use. Industrial pumping and recovery techniques have limitations.

    In term of gas emission and pollution, looking at the size of the fire we are probably looking at the equivalent of what a few 1000 people town powered by a coal plant would produce. It’s a very small amount. Giant landfills in India, Brazil, Egypt China, produce thousands of times more gas per year. The day every human activity on earth is as clean as it can be, it shall then be time to look at that hole…

    When attacking problems, you’re always better of fixing the bigger ones and finish with touch up on smaller things.

    Leave your political and religious debates aside. This post is about Davarza well, Turkmenistan.

    If you are interested in the geological bits or the technical bits, just try to contact the local branch of a geologist’s professional association (AAPG, AUSIMM, you name it… there’s plenty of them). Geos are usually very keen on sharing their passion for earth, don’t hesitate to ask.

  66. Metis Warrior Says:

    “From the comments it is evident that Americans rank among the stupidest and most scientifically illiterate people on the planet.
    Don’t worry, I won’t waste my time attempting to educate you. An education would be lost on you people.
    Best to leave the stupid to their talk radio and fox news. Delusions never die.”

    Since this comment, nothing but venom has leaked from your PC. Not even one viable response. Absolutely nothing added to any of the topics raised to do with science or otherwise. I cannot even lower myself to that level and hope that all others who come across this post will ignore your “wolfs cry” from here on.

    I do have a contribution to your education (as that must be the only reason you came on here). Are you sure you know what an “American” is? All my educated brothers and sisters out there must be grinning now. All people who live in “North America” and “South America” are “Americans.”
    As I do not live in the United States(the actual citizens I must think your bashing is directed at) I find it was my duty to inform you.

    Oh, and all humankind….. come on now. Then you quote the bible. Last I checked this was about…… HAHAHA! Now I get it, you are on here because of the “Door to Hell” reference. Sorry, I thought you wanted to discuss the “Gas Burning Crater”.

    Now it is late and I am sure you are mentally drained from all this.

    Now as you turn off your lights, radio and computer tonight……. Remember, from all us “stupid Americans,”

    Your Welcome :)

    Now pack up tomorrow and jump on that “stupid American” invention called the airplane (the thing that flies through the skies like a bird, but it is not).
    Wave farewell and send me some tea when you land I am getting a little short.

    Just to get your gears going to help you along, I am an Atheist.
    Your response in this post will fall upon deaf ears from this point forward.

    But e-mail me sometime, pipes13@excite.com perhaps we can chat.

  67. Metis Warrior Says:

    And I am truly sorry for that Kanter I do agree, this post is about the Davarza well.

    If we are to be concerned over such a little thing, might as well figure out a way to cap off some active Volcanoes while we are at it. Let us just stick to putting out forest fires for now, at least we know that makes a difference.

    Happy New Year everyone.

  68. David Says:

    Hello Metis,

    * “I do have a contribution to your education (as that must be the only reason you came on here). Are you sure you know what an “American” is? All my educated brothers and sisters out there must be grinning now. All people who live in “North America” and “South America” are “Americans.”

    Wow … is that so? Are you certain? Most of these Americans from Teabagistan don’t even know that there is anything outside of America’s borders. They might even think that the world is flat and less than 10,000 years old.

    * “Oh, and all humankind….. come on now. Then you quote the bible. Last I checked this was about…… HAHAHA! ”

    If you are offended at all by my quoting the Bible I can assure you that I don’t give a damn.

    * “Now pack up tomorrow and jump on that “stupid American” invention called the airplane (the thing that flies through the skies like a bird, but it is not).
    Wave farewell and send me some tea when you land I am getting a little short.

    Just to get your gears going to help you along, I am an Atheist.”

    What an incoherent paragraph. Did you go to the Sarah Palin writing school or are you a semi-literate idiot?

  69. John Says:

    Power transports pretty well (thanks in large part to Tesla’s research and subsequent high voltage AC – sheesh, we haven’t advanced his ideas much). Depending on how many btu’s worth of gas you could effectively “harvest”, you might be able to make a nice amount of power. A typical combined cycle power plant (gas fired turbine with exhaust heat used for secondary heat exchangers for steam turbine… in other words, the efficient kind) can make over 500 MegaWatts using roughly 5000 decatherms of natural gas per hour (I’m not sure how the composition/quality of this gas compares, nor the available volume). This type of plant costs at least a couple hundred million US dollars built in North America (which is less of a factor than one might first think). It would probably cost more in a remote place such as this.
    An obvious and easy to understand comparison would be windmill power (to assess value). btw.. these are an enigma in the power industry (not too many are willing to say this because it’s not politically correct).
    Typical windmills cost about a million dollars per unit (yes, I know there are farms of them) and make a maximum of about 1 megawatt. They don’t need fuel but their prime mover (wind) is not reliable (depending on location). There are places in the world where they will leave areas wanting for power. Windmills like to make power at night (due to wind cycles and incentives like credits and tax breaks) when we least need it and coal plants need to make power and continue to use fuel for reliability reasons (at night). Talk to (m)any system operator in the power industry and they’ll grit their teeth when you mention windmills. Coal plants can and will go bankrupt in this scenario and many areas will be left with windmills, combined cycle gas and peakers (single cycle gas) – expensive and less reliable power. In other words, they won’t have enough power for peak power consumption during the day (especially after the world economy picks up). The power will certainly be more expensive as well.
    But I digress.
    Ah.. the question remains – how far away is a good “power need”. Transmission construction costs between 1 and 5 million US dollars per mile (dependent on terrain and other factors).
    I’d assume a minimum of 10% losses in transmission – possibly much more depending on distance to power “need” area.
    Electricity in industrial/residential areas of the US can fluctuate but $30 to $50 is a start (per MWh). If we do the math, we understand why plant construction becomes less important – $40 per MWh x .9 (losses) x 500 (plant output) x 24 = $432,000 worth of power per day (about $157 billion in power per year not including outages and low demand periods). $40 per MWh could be as low as $20.. you also have licensing, plant maintenance, plant personnel, land acquisition, carbon taxes, etc. Also consider transmission construction (front loaded).
    If these types of power plants make sense in the US (combined cycle gas fired) where natural gas costs $3-$12 per decatherm, it seems compelling to build a power plant near a large (possibly free) gas reserve. Conservationists would like the idea because it’s currently burning and creating undesirable by-products and not doing anything constructive. Why not do something constructive (make usable power) while making these undesirable by-products?
    It boils down to whether the transmission costs combined with the free fuel compete well with other forms of power generation (which is near the power need).
    My numbers are from memory.. if I’m wrong, somebody please correct me.

  70. Kanter Says:

    Thanks John,

    Loss in power transport in France’s network is 2.5% of the total production.

    In the case of a powerplant in the middle of that desert, this loss wouldn’t be the most important but as you demonstrated, it would be at a ridiculous cost.

    Solution: leave it burn, travel, get there, go and see that oddity of nature. The ground is natural, the cave-in half natural, the desert probably magnificent as most deserts is natural as well… The country is, more than likely, worth a visit.

    By the time someone spends time to find a technical solution, there will be a lot of other matters to solve.

    In first aid you are always taught to go for the worst first and then treat minor things. This little fire is nothing in comparison with industrial sources of pollution. Let’s look at what’s big and next door before going for what’s small and in the middle of nowhere.

    Cheers.

  71. John Says:

    I’d like to understand more about whether there’d be enough gas to support a powerplant. Possibly good points about the shallow reserves and all by Kanter… Even if there is enough gas.. enough volume, extractable, etc., somebody will want to get paid for it (land owner, gov’t, indigenous rodents…)

  72. Kanter Says:

    And don’t forget, this post is still about the destination idea for your next holiday.

  73. John Says:

    All good points Kanter. This thread should be about the “vacation spot”.
    It does look like a neat place. With 2 people at the rim (in the picture), I doubt we’re getting thousands of decatherms per hour – oops, there I go again.

  74. Angie Says:

    As someone who’s not educated in areas of energy harvesting, I have little of value to add to discussion on the topic, but I have to admit that even though this is primarily about introduction of a place for travel, on topic discussion about what could be done to avoid the waste of energy and resources is a valued addition to the page. I did not particularly find the arguments in mid section necessary, but now that this debate is back to being about Darvaza Well, I actually enjoy the qualified and educating posts by people who obviously know what they are talking about.

  75. Schlum man Says:

    No, filling it with sand would not work. The gas would just migrate right through it and you would be left with the same problem only it would be ugly. Don’t worry about the impact on global warming. This crater has probably done less damage in 38 years than 1 days worth of airline flights around the world. Just imagine how much fuel is burned everyday by planes, especially if you include the military flights around the world. I think that they should find a way to plumb water lines around the crater and harness the heat to make a power plant. As long as it is burning, why not make free power out of it??? At any rate, it’s pretty cool!!!!

  76. David Says:

    Hello Angie,

    * “… now that this debate is back to being about Darvaza Well, I actually enjoy the qualified and educating posts by people who obviously know what they are talking about. ”

    Anyone who visits a Vacation Ideas blog for the sake of getting an education about energy really ought to engage their mind a little and educate themself since I would imagine that there are blogs actually devoted to energy where you could learn a bit more from more reliable sources.
    Education via the Internet isn’t something I would recommend even for uneducated conservatives.

  77. John e dub Says:

    are you guys for REAL ?. CO2 does NOT cause warming. I just watched Apollo 13. The CO2 rose in that little sucker on the way back from Mars and Tom Hanks and the crew were freezin their asses off. IDIOTS !!
    Oh and David, you are a butt head with no facts to back yourself up but, right now you have a nice warm fuzzy feeling because someone else has mentioned your name and responded to your completed and utter hatred of all things right. AND. I’ve looked at your photos on flickr and they are below average. BTW, AGW is a myth.

  78. John e dub Says:

    YES of course. I forgot totally what this thread was originally about. Would be a nice place to visit. (I hope David books a flight to Uzbekistan) while the rest of you tree huggers book your Carbon Neutral flights (just a hint, there is no such thing) to Turkmenistan.) That hole is seriously awesome.

  79. David Says:

    Hello John E Dub,

    Poor uneducated bitter conservative John … anyone who tries to derive scientific conclusions from a movie really probably should not spend their time talking as that reveals the profound depths of their stupidity.

  80. John e dub Says:

    I’m sorry, I can’t stop laughing. You took my comment seriously. BITTER? Ha. It wasn’t Mars it was The Moon and it wasn’t Tom Hanks it was Jim Lovell. You fell for that reply like a real nong dinchya poppet? Proving you don’t read everything, I’m still laughing. You have proved yourself to be the idiot. AGAIN. Have ya booked that flight to Uzbekistan yet? Bye Bye brainless.

  81. David Says:

    Hello John e dub,

    Teabaggers evidently don’t do humor very well just as they don’t comprehend science so well and they don’t do religious well and especially they don’t live well.

    Teabagistan must find happiness whereever they can because they sure don’t have any happiness in their life.

  82. Ally Says:

    David, like a performing monkey, you never cease to entertain.
    But here’s a few honest questions for you: Once again, if the U.S is so terrible why are you still here? Like Metis said, hop on a plane and go somewhere else. It isn’t that hard. And where did this hatred of everything American come from?

  83. John e dub Says:

    You tell him Ally! I don’t think he listens though. I pity his wife, oh wait, she probably left him. I pity his friends, oh wait, he definately doesn’t have any.

  84. David Says:

    Hello Ally,

    Poor Ally from Teabagistan. If America is so good why do you people hate America so much and spend so much time wishing to secede from the union, engage in a revolution from the federal government, and provoke some sort of stupid religious war on behalf of imposing your fundamentalist morality upon everyone else?
    Teabaggers aren’t patriotic. Teabaggers are pure plain stupid people. Uneducated fools waving the flag while pissing upon it with their own pollution.

  85. Ally Says:

    I never realized that the state that I live in tried to secede from the Union. I’m not from Texas, asshat. So how about you actaully read the posts that you ridicule. You keep on making yourself look like an idiot, and it keeps getting more funny. How about you answer a question for once, D-fuego?
    Oh, and if you’re so educated why don’t you know how to properly uses puncuation?

  86. David Says:

    Hello Ally,
    Do they not teach science in teabagistan or are you just naturally stupid?

  87. Jmac Says:

    David is a troll. Avoid him and move on. Good proverb…Never wrestle with a pig, you’ll only get muddy and the pig will enjoy it.

  88. rock digger Says:

    hmmm… well this has been an interesting debate to watch. I stumbled across it while researching something else, but morbid curiosity kept me reading… sadly

    David dear, I am a PhD Geologist, Catholic, Conservative, and Texan! Throw in that I am a highly educated woman and Heaven Help Me, I suffer all sorts of contradictions according to your interpretations.

    One simple FACT remains true regardless of my affiliation or beliefs (or yours for that matter). Our planet has, is, and will continue to go through many cycles of cooling and heating as it reacts to the constant movement of the surface and subsurface. The earth’s physical processes, which you could not possibly understand, have been occurring for over 4 billion years and are fairly stable… oh wait- you may not be aware of those either if you believe in all those ‘creationist’ theories…. Nevertheless, ‘tis true.

    A mere human civilization has had (short of a nuclear warhead) negligible influence on the powerful forces that dictate what this planet does internally or atmospherically. Educate yourself David, you seem to be falling short in this debate.

    It is quite enjoyable to watch you try to pick your way through this battle you have started with your uneducated liberal self.

    Cheers to those trying to educate poor David, but thus it seems a hopeless cause.

  89. Dylan Says:

    Well, David may be a troll, but he was right about one thing. Nobody wanted to address my criticism of John’s climate-change-skepticism above. All too busy feeding the troll.

    I’ll give it another shot, with Ms Rock Digger.

    A common claim of the climate change skeptic is that our planet goes through “many cycles of cooling and heating” and that man has only limited impact on these cycles.

    Well, as Rock Digger claims to be highly educated, and a PhD to boot, she is no doubt aware that these natural climate change cycles require a forcing change (such as the Milkanovich Cycles that have previosly controlled the onset and retreat of ice ages.) If that forcing change is not a result of human activity then what is it?

    Until recently we have been in a cooling phase, but our sudden and dramatic rise in global temperature is happening at a rate almost ten times faster than any previous naturally forced warming period, and it is happening out of turn, when our planet should be slowly cooling.

    What natural physical process sees the simultaneous increase of CO2 in the atmosphere by 35% and a sudden rise in global temperatures? Can you give me one? Or do you assert that these are unrelated? If so, can you provide an alternative natural forcing method for the rise in temperature? I’d be surprised if you can, because nobody else has been able to yet.

    On the other hand, climate scientists have provided a mainstream, internally consistent theory that accounts for the effects we are now observing. It provides explanations and makes predictions. Predictions which have been proven over and over again to be correct since they were first made over 100 years ago.

  90. David Says:

    Hello Rock Digger,

    * “… I am a PhD Geologist, Catholic, Conservative, and Texan! Throw in that I am a highly educated woman and Heaven Help Me, I suffer all sorts of contradictions according to your interpretations. ”
    I’m impressed! Well, I’m not …
    * “One simple FACT remains true regardless of my affiliation or beliefs (or yours for that matter). Our planet has, is, and will continue to go through many cycles of cooling and heating as it reacts to the constant movement of the surface and subsurface. The earth’s physical processes, which you could not possibly understand, have been occurring for over 4 billion years and are fairly stable … ”
    Oh, God, you really are a Texan. I don’t mean that as a compliment, by the way …
    * “A mere human civilization has had (short of a nuclear warhead) negligible influence on the powerful forces that dictate what this planet does internally or atmospherically. ”
    That’s about as stupid as I would expect from a Texan. Perhaps you haven’t noticed Houston’s smoggy atmosphere. Or Perhaps you haven’t realized that a virus which is so small as to approach nonexistence is powerful enough to kill a human.
    Are you really educated or are you just another resident of Teabagistan?
    * “It is quite enjoyable to watch you try to pick your way through this battle you have started with your uneducated liberal self. ”
    Pity the poor college that gave you a degree … except, of course, you have no education and no degree. You are just another ignorant Texan teabagger. Has your governor finally decided to secede from the United States? Please tell him to do so. I’d prefer to give Texas back to Mexico, though, since the state was stolen from Mexico by American illegal immigrants.

  91. David Says:

    Hello Dylan,

    * “Well, David may be a troll, but he was right about one thing. Nobody wanted to address my criticism of John’s climate-change-skepticism above. All too busy feeding the troll. ”
    If you would stop whining long enough to listen to yourself you would realize why no one addressed your arguments.
    * “What natural physical process sees the simultaneous increase of CO2 in the atmosphere by 35% and a sudden rise in global temperatures? Can you give me one? Or do you assert that these are unrelated? If so, can you provide an alternative natural forcing method for the rise in temperature? ”
    You are asking a bunvh of good questions by they are addressed to an uneducated scientifically illiterate audence. You might as well not waste your time waiting for an answer.
    * “On the other hand, climate scientists have provided a mainstream, internally consistent theory that accounts for the effects we are now observing. It provides explanations and makes predictions. Predictions which have been proven over and over again to be correct since they were first made over 100 years ago. ”
    You say this as if you expect this audience of teabaggers would heed the scientific evidence. You should take it for granted that these people would no more heed actual scientific evidence than an audience of creationists would heed actual biological evidence of evolution.
    You are wasting your time. Stop whining because my comments are actually answered. You have to address your audience in language that they will hear.
    The residents of Teabagistan aren’t educated enough to appreciate science.

  92. rock digger Says:

    Dylan,
    Touché
    I regard anyone in a higher opinion that is willing to open his or her mind and listen and be educated from experts rather than media hype that twist words to portray their own agenda. So that being said, I applaud you for wanting to know more.
    I am more or less ambivalent in general because until I see scientific evidence that proves the opinion of global warming, it will never be a theory. I don’t fault anyone for lack of knowledge, only for lack of willingness to learn. My purpose is not to debate science with people who do not have the knowledge to understand what they are reading. I am merely pointing out that your previously domineering troll is uneducated himself and WRONG.
    As was previously mentioned, to predicate an argument with an arbitrary time slice of a few (6) years or even 100 of scientific data on this scale of a topic, is unqualified. 100 years in the life spectrum of earth are but a speck of sand in the hourglass.
    Ice cores have been studied for over 450,000 years. Those cores show climate cycles for which we have no other historical documentation, i.e. weather data. We are following in a VERY typical pattern according to numerous studies of those cores samples. Pollen data and other flora/faunal studies, which are excellent climate indicators for anyone well versed in historical climatology, also substantiate these theories.
    Dually noted, there is a conundrum of climate conditions upon us if you look in the narrow window of decades and centuries, but to arbitrarily assign that to a gas and a ‘carbon footprint’ is just plain bad science.
    As for Milankovitch cycles (spelled correctly), this is a naturally occurring phenomenon that has more to do with the earth’s eccentricity as it follows orbit and accounts for the periodicities. Regarding the question ‘what causes the forcing change of Milankovitch cycles?’ That can be answered in a similar way to any College Physics course going through a more detailed explanation of gravity. There are detailed mathematical derivations as to why they occur too complex to post here. Suffice it to say, read up on Kepler and you will find what you need. During the Holocene, and even further back, we are actually quite close to the mean anomaly.
    For the record, there were far worse ‘climate conditions’ than we are experiencing now and much higher temperatures and CO2 concentrations over the last 100+ M-cycles. We are still here as a species along with many millions of others that survived…
    Don’t get me wrong I am all for doing my part environmentally; using fossil fuels and water with respect- as these are precious commodities. But I am quite frankly tired of uneducated people (mainly the media) teaching the larger portion of the population about something of which they know nothing.
    Let us get back to the Darvaza anomaly, of which I am much more curious about…

  93. rock digger Says:

    David you have yet to provide anyone with intelligent information, so typical.

    Your commentary very much becomes a guy who is sitting in his boxer shorts behind a laptop in his mom’s basement without a real job.

    Oh wait… you must be the guy who keeps failing my Geology exams for my 9 am class…

    Get an education my friend.

  94. rock digger Says:

    Kanter and Metis Warrior,
    I, like you, stumbled upon this site not looking for anything related to a vacation- but rather the Darvaza well.
    Let us pick up before the troll’s rant and cast that aside.
    I agree a power plant near the well is an option but what of the cost of infastructure to get locals and others to it? In adition to the cost of puting out the fire initially, there are firms out there who specialize in this arena.
    Any thoughts?

  95. Dylan Says:

    Ms Digger,
    Thanks for replying. I agree that Darvarza is a fascination, but I must respond nonetheless to your post.
    CRU and NASA data extends back 150 years and shows consistently higher than average temperature ranges over the past 30 years, a trend starting in about 1915.
    Borehole measurements give us a longer range of measure, providing data on the last 500 years or so, and they also show the last century as being consistently warmer than the previous 4.
    Proxy data anlysis (tree rings, pollen data, ocean sediment, coral growth etc) aggregated together gives us a picture of the last 1-2 thousand years, which shows that it is warmer now than any time during that period (including the Medieval Warm Period.)
    The *nearest* geologically contemporary warm period was thought to be the Holocene Climatic Optimum, about 6000 years ago, but current research indicates that this period was only as warm as today in the northern hemisphere, and only in summer. So these models now indicate that it is warmer now than any time in the past 10,000 years (are we approaching an appropriate geological scale for you now?)
    Since the last ice age ended around 10,000 years ago, and lasted for about 100,000 years, we can now be reasonably confident that we are in the warmest period during the past 100,000 years.
    We may still be here as a species, but I would suggest we were a very different kind of animal 100,000 years ago, the last time it was perhaps this warm.
    I find it interesting that you argue we are close to the mean anomaly for the Holocene period. If you can point me to some recent research that agrees with this view, I would like to see it. The closest peak in the Holocene to present conditions is about 7,700 years ago, and still well below 2005 levels.
    All this during a period that the globe should really be slowly cooling.
    The assignment of the warming cycle to CO2 is not arbitrary. CO2 represents the best fit based on oberservation, theory, prediction and review in a field stretching back over 100 years. That doesn’t sound like the definition of Bad Science to me. It suggests to me that your standard for determining whether something is opinion or theory may need to be addressed. Perhaps by reviewing some more of the science.

  96. Dylan Says:

    Back to Darvaza, to me it seems a wholly natural penomenon. Just because it is spectacular doesn’t mean it needs to be tapped.

    As a species, we have already worked out methods for efficiently extracting heat and energy from the ground below our feet without the need to set it on fire. I guarantee that a few hundred well placed heat pumps in the USA would generate far more usable and proximate energy than the Darvaza hole.

    Let it burn.

  97. David Says:

    Hello rock digger,

    * “I am more or less ambivalent in general because until I see scientific evidence that proves the opinion of global warming, it will never be a theory. ”
    Evidently you did get your degree from the University of Teabagistan, otherwise known as Glenn Beck’s Univerisity of I Don’t Remember.
    * “As was previously mentioned, to predicate an argument with an arbitrary time slice of a few (6) years or even 100 of scientific data on this scale of a topic, is unqualified. 100 years in the life spectrum of earth are but a speck of sand in the hourglass.”
    Wow … you’ve made a discovery. The Earth is really old. You must have learned this in elementary school because that’s when they start teaching it. I hope you don’t expect a Nobel Prize for the discovery, though, since science has known about it for a very long time.
    * “Ice cores have been studied for over 450,000 years. Those cores show climate cycles for which we have no other historical documentation, i.e. weather data. We are following in a VERY typical pattern according to numerous studies of those cores samples. Pollen data and other flora/faunal studies, which are excellent climate indicators for anyone well versed in historical climatology, also substantiate these theories. ”
    Seems that the Ph.D. from Teabagistan allows you to reach conclusions about samples which you haven’t studied and in direct contradiction to the conclusions of the scientists who actually have studied the material.
    * “Dually noted, there is a conundrum of climate conditions upon us if you look in the narrow window of decades and centuries, but to arbitrarily assign that to a gas and a ‘carbon footprint’ is just plain bad science. ”
    To the membersof Teabagistan, perhaps, but not so much to the scientists who have actually devoted their career to the subject.
    * “For the record, there were far worse ‘climate conditions’ than we are experiencing now and much higher temperatures and CO2 concentrations over the last 100+ M-cycles. We are still here as a species along with many millions of others that survived… ”
    Humans did not exist in those previous conditions, of course, and civilization did not exist either. But if you want to argue about survival in harsh conditions, there are millions of humans surviving in sewer type conditions so you won’t object if someone dumps their sewage in your living room, right?
    * “Don’t get me wrong I am all for doing my part environmentally; using fossil fuels and water with respect- as these are precious commodities. But I am quite frankly tired of uneducated people (mainly the media) teaching the larger portion of the population about something of which they know nothing ”
    You respect oil … ! God, the members of teabagistan are stupid.

  98. David Says:

    Hello rock digger,
    * “Oh wait… you must be the guy who keeps failing my Geology exams for my 9 am class… ”
    Pity the poor students who have to listen to your crap in order to get a grade. Which polluting industry do you represent?

  99. David Says:

    Hello Dylan,
    * “That doesn’t sound like the definition of Bad Science to me. It suggests to me that your standard for determining whether something is opinion or theory may need to be addressed. Perhaps by reviewing some more of the science. ”
    You are wasting your time engaged in an argument with someone who has already rejected science. It is as pointless as trying to lead a creationists to science.
    Rock Digger represents a polluting interest and therefore isn’t going to abandon a defense of pollution on behalf as anything as irrelevant as the health of the planet or the future of humankind.

  100. Dylan Says:

    The point in engaging a climate contrarian isn’t necessarily to convince the contrarian to change their mind. (She often has to slink away somewhere for a while before boldy stepping forward to announce a miraculous change of perspective.)
    The point in engaging a contrarian is to provide the silent majority of people participating in this experience with the assurance that there are serious answers, and rational discussions to be had.
    When Obama and McCain debated, they weren’t trying to convince each other of anything (what a wasted effort that would be!) They were busy convincing the audience.
    If you misunderstand this as an effort to convert a lost soul, you misunderstand the purpose and action of debate in general.

  101. rock digger Says:

    David dear,
    It is obvious that you have nothing better to do with your time. If my ‘conclusions’ in this ever so highly scientific debate you are perpetuating are wrong- prove it, post some scientific ‘evidence’ which proves me wrong… you cannot because all you know how to do is regurgitate the crap the media spouts off… go back to hugging the trees, protesting, and watching CNN for your knowledge, it’s the best you are ever gonna get. ask your mom to fix you a TV dinner so you can continue your diatribe.
    If you are really up for a challenge there are some moderately accurate shows on the Science channel and Discovery but watch out for the comercials in between…

  102. David Says:

    Hello Dylan,
    * “The point in engaging a contrarian is to provide the silent majority of people participating in this experience with the assurance that there are serious answers, and rational discussions to be had. ”
    Do you really imagine that there is a silent majority actually listening to this discussion on this blog?
    There isn’t.

  103. David Says:

    Hello rock digger,
    * “It is obvious that you have nothing better to do with your time.”
    Yes, rock digger, I enjoy spending my time engaged in arguments with the uneducated members of teabagistan.
    * “If my ‘conclusions’ in this ever so highly scientific debate you are perpetuating are wrong- prove it, post some scientific ‘evidence’ which proves me wrong… you cannot”
    You seem confused about your place in the Universe, rock digger. You are the anti-science nutjob in the present argument. If science cannot convince you there isn’t any point in me engaging in the effort.

    * “ask your mom to fix you a TV dinner so you can continue your diatribe. ”
    Poor rock digger … you are trying so hard, aren’t you?

    * “If you are really up for a challenge there are some moderately accurate shows on the Science channel and Discovery but watch out for the comercials in between… ”
    Um, whatever …

  104. rock digger Says:

    Dylan,
    My colleauges at NASA would love to get into this discussion since you are referring to some of their data, however we should probably take this into another more professional forum, it might blow the troll’s mind with the first disussion of physics, chemistry, and geologic time. We should maintain this discussion with the big boys and girls… and not the trolls.

    As for your comments regarding my theory and opinion, I believe you are still referring to the micro scale. Even when using core data on the order of 100k years we are still talking percentages of less than one when looking at the overall history of the earth and it’s tectonic, asmospheric, and climatic changes. Let’s be realistic, when you look at the Holocene, and only the Holcene, that is still but a small window of time in the cycles of earth. Fundamentally geologists and atmospheric scientists agree but the waters get muddy when scale becomes a factor, I fear this is where we too must agree to disagree, proxy data or not.

    I would be glad to discuss this on a professional level offline with you since you seem to be the only one in the recent posts for this thread that is remotely educated in this topic. I have a colleague that specialzes in paleopollen and paleoclimate, floral impacts, as well as neotectonics. Perhaps that would help you to understand my perspective.

    I am still intersted in the Davarza well, ‘let it burn’ is not a bad theory, however those in the area in need of a fuel/energy/heat source might tend to disagree with that conclusion.

    I am not intersted in continuing debate for the sake of debate with a troll, very boring at this point, and is beginning to sound like a broken record out of a childs mouth…
    too bad more stimulating and educated folks decided not to post. can’t imagine why…

  105. David Says:

    Hello Rock Digger,
    * “My colleauges at NASA would love to get into this discussion since you are referring to some of their data, however we should probably take this into another more professional forum, it might blow the troll’s mind with the first disussion of physics, chemistry, and geologic time. ”
    Woo hoo … I’m so impressed.
    * “As for your comments regarding my theory and opinion, I believe you are still referring to the micro scale. Even when using core data on the order of 100k years we are still talking percentages of less than one when looking at the overall history of the earth and it’s tectonic, asmospheric, and climatic changes. ”
    Are all teabaggers as stupid as yourself? You are talking as if all of the above is even relevant.
    * “Let’s be realistic, when you look at the Holocene, and only the Holcene, that is still but a small window of time … ”
    Imagine this … you visit your doctor and he tells you that you’ve got cancer and you answer, “Well, the Earth is 4.5 billion years old … ”
    * “I would be glad to discuss this on a professional level offline with you since you seem to be the only one in the recent posts for this thread that is remotely educated in this topic. ”
    You sound like a teabagger not a professional. Did you go to Glenn Beck University?
    * “too bad more stimulating and educated folks decided not to post. can’t imagine why… ”
    Too bad you aren’t educated.

  106. Dylan Says:

    When we look at the billions of years our universe has existed, there have certainly been times that were different than now. But if you are interested in the eye of an ant, why start your investigation by looking at the mountain it lives on?
    Discussions of scale are interesting, but ultimately counterproductive. Unless there is a convenient tectonic explanantion for the present rise in global temperatures (and I didn’t notice any continents shifting in the last 30 years) what would you propose is the forcing agent?
    Atmospheric features from millions of years ago are not likely to have any bearing on the atmospheric features of today, and natural climactic change cycles that have been relatively regular and cyclical for almost the last billion years only to change suddenly 100 years ago seems to support the idea that something new is going on today. And it’s not tectonic, and it’s not an asteroid.
    Your friend the paleoclimatologist would likely concede that global warming has been occurring for the past 120 years or so (which seems to be about average in that field), and may agree with their colleagues at NOAA (http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/globalwarming/end.html) that human activity has contributed at least 50% to that rise.
    I’m glad that we agree, but I fail to see what we disagree about.

  107. rock digger Says:

    Dylan,
    It seems you too are only interested in debate for the sake of debate. Finite’
    I shall go back to true science and professionals.
    Enjoy looking at the mountain and the ants as they play follow the leader and feed their fat queen.
    Coincidentally, since you are hell bent on looking at the micro, Antarctica is warmer today than parts of North Texas… global warming at it’s finest! Coldest they have seen in almost 40 years…
    And yes the continents ARE shifting, mm to inches per year, I would think you should know that if you are an expert on all things related to science…
    Don’t spend too much time trying to find ‘facts’ on the internet to quote which you do not fully understand.
    Enjoy!

  108. Dylan Says:

    So you propose that tectonic shifts of the last century have a significant role to play in global warming?
    If I remember right, the fastest moving plates only manage 7 or 8 cm a year.
    I guess there is some possibility of it. Lord knows, the intensity of many a past ice age had much to do with the location and distribution of landmass.
    But my you turned from admirer to critic quickly.
    Thanks for confusing weather with climate, incidentally (though I know you were being flippant.) There was an interesting chart on the BBC news website the other day, let me see if I can find it… http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/bsp/hi/dhtml_slides/10/cold_weather/img/weather_maps_4.gif there it is! Shows that while north Texas is freezing, in North Africa, Canada, Alaska, the Middle East and various other places, it is actually a lot warmer than normal. Warm spots include Turkmenistan.

  109. Hubert Says:

    @website
    No actually I think Door to Hell is far more scary and interesting than your suggestion. And really. Who cares about the ‘religious terminology.’

  110. Dave sucks rock Says:

    well after looking at the pictures, then reading the comments, trying to get info, then feeling swamped by some 2 bit tit called David being so self rightous, boring, more than likely a limp wristed fanny fart, bucked tooth, massive erection, I got bored and decided to go outside and do something useful. bye y’all

  111. David Says:

    I really doubt that you could ever do anything useful … but keep on being a bitter sad conservative loser.

  112. dave is a fatty Says:

    I will have you know I invented time, also I can create matter by simply thinking about it.

  113. Mark Spivey Says:

    In 1978 I visited the Fire Temple in Yazd, Iran & there was aphoto on the wall of another Fire Temple in Kazakhstan, a small square building with short round towers on either side with flame spewing out. A sign in English read that the temple was very old, I forgot how old, but I wasn’t believing it since the Zoroastrians in Yazd also claim Zartoshti lived 5000 years ago rather than the usual appr’ly 650 BC. It was way cool!

  114. silent majority Says:

    This has been a great debate. Boatloads of scientific data have been shared by participants such as Dylan and rock digger if one is so inclined to listen to their obviously educated dialogue and visit some of the links they have provided.

    For the past several years I have listened to, watched and read about the subject of Global Warming intently. It is blatantly obvious who are promoting the subject for the reason of “personal gain” and who are promoting the “facts” as based upon differing interpretations and opinions of past and current scientific data. The conclusion I have come to respect is that of those who believe the current data neither supports nor denies an absolute value in the role of mankind as a major progenitor in this latest episode of climate change, be it warming or cooling.

    I am convinced of this; the earth’s climate has reacted cyclically to any number of influences, be they sun spots, axis tilts, magnetic pole shifts, shifting tectonic plates, land mass drift, asteroid strikes, and volcanic activity for 4.5 billion years and will continue to do so for the next billions of years with or without mankind’s influence.

    In geological time, humans have been around less than the width of a pencil line on the scale. If you narrow that down to the last two hundred years since we have actually entered the “pollution mode”, (that = .00000+39 – 4’s as a percentage) one would have to be extremely arrogant to assume that humans have so much power that we could upset the entire balance of the earth’s climate in such a short time all by ourselves. I am not denying that humans contribute, I’m just saying that the amount of actual change that could be attributed directly to human activity would be barely measurable considering all the natural forces that are known to affect the climate.

    My personal opinion, which I purpose to foist upon no one, is that humans have about as much influence on global climate change as a leaf floating down the Mississippi River has in determining the course of that river.

    And now, here’s the real reason the silent majority has chimed in. It appears to me that “David “, in all his presumptuousness, has become drunk on the kool ade of the antagonizing, mantra chanting, talking points memorizing leftist idealogues. His opinion is not formulated from reasoned thought, nor is it derived from educated study of scientific evidence or serious debate thereof. People like him are nothing more than speed bumps and pot holes on the humanity road and should be treated with the same disdain as a pesky flea. Since his inception into this thread on Dec. 28, he has done nothing more than spew his limited vocabulary of venomous diatribe and added nothing more to the discussion than a fat man in a Speedo adds to a day at the beach.

    Ignore the bug and it will eventually seek out another forum where it will attract the confrontational banter it thrives on. It cannot be reasoned with, nor swayed with educated dialog because it does not possess the requsite minimum intelligence necessary to understand the concept. That would be akin to trying to convince your dog to use a toilet and flush after every use. You wouldn’t even attempt to try that.

    Why a human would willfully adopt a level of mentality so much more closely aligned with a lower form of life escapes me. We must have pity on them while avoiding acknowledging their presence in our midst lest they become eager as a dog who thinks you may toss it a treat and never go away.

  115. David Says:

    Hello silent majority.
    I am certain that those people who you praised can take great comfort in receiving the praise of an ignorant uneducated person. It is obvious that you’ve got science all figured out … like the creationists.
    You say:
    * “In geological time, humans have been around less than the width of a pencil line on the scale. If you narrow that down to the last two hundred years since we have actually entered the “pollution mode”, (that = .00000+39 – 4’s as a percentage) one would have to be extremely arrogant to assume that humans have so much power that we could upset the entire balance of the earth’s climate in such a short time all by ourselves. ”
    Are you really so stupid as to not have noticed all of the massive changes humankind has made to the Earth over the last several centuries? Well … since you evidently are stupid enough to not notice, I encourage you to heed to observations of the scientists since they have actually devoted their careers to this subject and they are actually informed.
    * ” I am not denying that humans contribute, I’m just saying that the amount of actual change that could be attributed directly to human activity would be barely measurable considering all the natural forces that are known to affect the climate.:
    More scientifically illiterate stupidity. Do you happen to live in a cave and never see the sunlight? You must if you haven’t noticed all of the massive changes humankind has made to the Earth.
    * “My personal opinion, which I purpose to foist upon no one, is that humans have about as much influence on global climate change as a leaf floating down the Mississippi River has in determining the course of that river. ”
    Your personal opinion doesn’t amount to much considering that you are probably less intelligent than a leaf.
    * “And now, here’s the real reason the silent majority has chimed in. It appears to me that “David “, in all his presumptuousness, has become drunk on the kool ade of the antagonizing, mantra chanting, talking points memorizing leftist idealogues. His opinion is not formulated from reasoned thought, nor is it derived from educated study of scientific evidence or serious debate thereof. People like him are nothing more than speed bumps and pot holes on the humanity road and should be treated with the same disdain as a pesky flea. ”
    Eh … perhaps you missed the outcome of the last election. Seems like the uneducated teabaggers are a politically irrelevant minority.
    * “It cannot be reasoned with, nor swayed with educated dialog because it does not possess the requsite minimum intelligence necessary to understand the concept. That would be akin to trying to convince your dog to use a toilet and flush after every use. You wouldn’t even attempt to try that. ”
    Teabaggers talking about intelligence makes about as much sense as Sarah Palin talking about anything.

  116. Brian Says:

    Hey David, you the man, you the champion. What a fisherman. Every cast got you a bite. Brilliant. Your arm must be permanently stained brown with all the shit-stirring you engaged in.Never read a funnier blog. You are undoubtably the bullshit champion. Congratulations. Keep up the good work. It’s hilarious. Look forward to your next installment.

  117. David Says:

    Hello Brian,
    Are you another stupid uneducated scientifically illiterate teabagger? You sound like one. Your standards of entertainment are very low because you’ve wasted so much of your life listening to talk radio rather than educate yourself.

  118. Brian Says:

    Hey Dave,
    Not a teabagger. Probably stupid, uneducated and scientifically illiterate. and as such not competant to comment on worldly matters. I’m only here for the fun as you are a champion bullshit artist and stirrer, like the late Rodney Dangerfield. Very funny. Are you a professional comedian?

  119. GE Says:

    After reading a bit of Da— the troll’s inane rantings and some great scientific replies I skipped all the rest.

    The crater is being supplied by gas coming from reservoir rock perhaps via a fault. That supply can be (and possibly has been??) tapped with drilling to the formations that hold the gas. All reservoirs are finite and can be depleted. Not enough information is given. It said a rig collapsed. Ususlly a crater that engulfs a rig is caused by and undreground blow out-not contained in the well bore. By far the most dangerous kind. It litterly liquifies the ground aroung the rig and creates the crater. In that respect this is not unique. From what I can gleen from the article there is H2S associated with this gas. H2S is deadly. A 20% concentration in breathed air will kill in less than 2 min. If that was known ignighting the crater was a logical thing to do. The gases Methane and heavier without thr H2S are dangerous. It is heavier than air and can gather in lowlands and litterally ignight explosively from any source of a spark. Ie a car driving through it. This is why all major blowouts (coming up the well bore) are ignighted until they can be controlled. Very few happen today with the prediction of over pressure situations and blowout prevention technology.

    I do not know this area geologically but someone does and since the breakup of the USSR these countries are exploiting their natural resouces. I would like to know if this gas is being produced nearby. Underground blow outs can be prevented and the sulfur can be removed from the gas to make it marketable.
    In the overall scheme of the planet the gas burned and the CO2 released is miniscule.

  120. David Says:

    Hello GE,
    * “After reading a bit of Da— the troll’s inane rantings and some great scientific replies I skipped all the rest. ”
    Thank God you appeared. Your insight is greatly appreciated. By someone … or no one.
    * “I do not know this area geologically but someone does … ”
    Here is a great observation indeed. Certainly you don’t know but someone else does. That’s enough for me.

  121. DAVID REALLY SUCKS!! Says:

    Hello David,

    This is what you sound like,(robotic voice)”Hello…my name is David…you are a stupid, uneducated teabagger…” repeat, indefinitely….

    You must be the most miserable, pathetic human alive. You have berated every single person on this thread who has responded to you. You spew crap from your mouth and think it actually has meaning to someone (ANYONE, PLEASE!!!..won’t someone please pay attention to me?…can I please play?) I think Rock digger hit the nail on the head with the “boxer shorts and tv dinner” comment. You certainly are bitter enough.

    You name-call like a three year old and then (again like a three year old in a tantrum) refuse to back up anything that comes out of your mouth. You have YET to say ANYTHING that sounds even remotely educated and yet you constantly call everyone else uneducated…I think that is the pot calling the kettle black.

    I am VERY much in agreement with whoever said you should pack your bags and GET OUT of AMERICA! You constantly call everyone Anti-this and Anti-that when you have, with your own words, proven that you are probably one of the most anti-American people I have ever come across. You dragged RACE (of all things!!!) into this thread. In my life I have found that the people who try to play the “race card” are the ones with real prejudices anyway.

    Just to let you know, I am
    1)A Christian
    2)a woman (surely ignorant!)
    3)A proud American
    3)a believer of the “big bang” theory (the Bible doesn’t say HOW God did it, just that he did it)
    4)Conservative
    5)Very well educated
    6)Non-prejudice
    7)A Southerner who has never approved of slavery (that was what all that “was all about, right?)

    “Conservatives are anti-life, anti-peace, anti-Nature, anti-God and anti-survival”

    I am: pro-life (isn’t it the CONSERVATIVES trying to throw out the abortion funding clause in the great “HEALTH CARE BILL”), pro-peace (something you obviously no nothing about…if your an example of a peace-lover I may have to rethink my standing), pro-nature: your comment: “the patriotic teabaggers are showing their love and appreciation to their own country by pissing on the flag with their pollution and destroying America’s future”…what a crock of crap (have you disconnected all of your appliances, thrown out every box of manufactured food, and cut off your electricity or given up your vehicle in order to be more “environmentally friendly”…no, you haven’t; ALL of these things take energy); very-much PRO God and very interested in the survival of my family and myself along with all other humans (with the exception of you). “Your patriotic claim that America is the best doesn’t coincide with America being the Welfare Queen of nations living on money borrowed from communist China. America is a has-been nation with millions of stupid, uneducated, scientifically illiterate patriots claiming to be the best people in the world contrary to all the evidence otherwise.”…a direct quote from you…now WHO’S UnAmerican? BTW, maybe our country would have more money if the liberals weren’t busy giving our tax dollars to every lazy, unproductive couch potato who refuses to give ANYTHING back to the country that they readily suck dry (oh, wait…you’re probably one of THOSE, at least you sure sound like it…constantly complaining about the country who offers the freedom to express yourself…enjoy your welfare check..I worked hard for it).

    I am very proud of my country in spite of all of it’s misgivings. No other country has proven themselves any better in my opinion.

    BTW…isn’t it the liberals who have belittled our country and mocked it ad nauseum to other countries (think Jane Fonda). I know of no conservative “pissing on the flag”, but Jane might as well have. There’s your friendly “pro-American” liberal for you. (I belive it takes BOTH sides liberal and conservative for this country to be what it is…each keeps the other in check). You can not classify all conservatives as exactly same and then turn around and make some ridiculous comment about race…that put’s you in the prejudice category, my friend). I have no doubt that many conservatives opinions differ from my own, but that’s ok…it’s called an opinion for a reason.

    You should take a hint from all of the other people on this post and just tuck your tail between your ignorant legs….(Oh, wait…let me rephrase this so you can understand)…tuck your tail between your STUPID, STUPID, STUPID, UNEDUCATED, UNEDUCATED, UNEDUCATED legs and scamper away.

  122. DAVID REALLY SUCKS!! Says:

    Hello David,

    This is what you sound like,(robotic voice)”Hello…my name is David…you are a stupid, uneducated teabagger…” repeat, indefinitely….

    You must be the most miserable, pathetic human alive. You have berated every single person on this thread who has responded to you. You spew crap from your mouth and think it actually has meaning to someone (ANYONE, PLEASE!!!..won’t someone please pay attention to me?…can I please play?) I think Rock digger hit the nail on the head with the “boxer shorts and tv dinner” comment. You certainly are bitter enough.

    You name-call like a three year old and then (again like a three year old in a tantrum) refuse to back up anything that comes out of your mouth. You have YET to say ANYTHING that sounds even remotely educated and yet you constantly call everyone else uneducated…I think that is the pot calling the kettle black.

    I am VERY much in agreement with whoever said you should pack your bags and GET OUT of AMERICA! You constantly call everyone Anti-this and Anti-that when you have, with your own words, proven that you are probably one of the most anti-American people I have ever come across. You dragged RACE (of all things!!!) into this thread. In my life I have found that the people who try to play the “race card” are the ones with real prejudices anyway.

    Just to let you know, I am
    1)A Christian
    2)a woman (surely ignorant!)
    3)A proud American
    3)a believer of the “big bang” theory (the Bible doesn’t say HOW God did it, just that he did it)
    4)Conservative
    5)Very well educated
    6)Non-prejudice
    7)A Southerner who has never approved of slavery (that was what all that “was all about, right?)

    “Conservatives are anti-life, anti-peace, anti-Nature, anti-God and anti-survival”

    I am: pro-life (isn’t it the CONSERVATIVES trying to throw out the abortion funding clause in the great “HEALTH CARE BILL”), pro-peace (something you obviously no nothing about…if your an example of a peace-lover I may have to rethink my standing), pro-nature: your comment: “the patriotic teabaggers are showing their love and appreciation to their own country by pissing on the flag with their pollution and destroying America’s future”…what a crock of crap (have you disconnected all of your appliances, thrown out every box of manufactured food, and cut off your electricity or given up your vehicle in order to be more “environmentally friendly”…no, you haven’t; ALL of these things take energy); very-much PRO God and very interested in the survival of my family and myself along with all other humans (with the exception of you). “Your patriotic claim that America is the best doesn’t coincide with America being the Welfare Queen of nations living on money borrowed from communist China. America is a has-been nation with millions of stupid, uneducated, scientifically illiterate patriots claiming to be the best people in the world contrary to all the evidence otherwise.”…a direct quote from you…now WHO’S UnAmerican? BTW, maybe our country would have more money if the liberals weren’t busy giving our tax dollars to every lazy, unproductive couch potato who refuses to give ANYTHING back to the country that they readily suck dry (oh, wait…you’re probably one of THOSE, at least you sure sound like it…constantly complaining about the country who offers the freedom to express yourself…enjoy your welfare check..I worked hard for it).

    I am very proud of my country in spite of all of it’s misgivings. No other country has proven themselves any better in my opinion.

    BTW…isn’t it the liberals who have belittled our country and mocked it ad nauseum to other countries (think Jane Fonda). I know of no conservative “pissing on the flag”, but Jane might as well have. There’s your friendly “pro-American” liberal for you. (I belive it takes BOTH sides liberal and conservative for this country to be what it is…each keeps the other in check). You can not classify all conservatives as exactly same and then turn around and make some ridiculous comment about race…that put’s you in the prejudice category, my friend). I have no doubt that many conservatives opinions differ from my own, but that’s ok…it’s called an opinion for a reason.

    You should take a hint from all of the other people on this post and just tuck your tail between your ignorant legs….(Oh, wait…let me rephrase this so you can understand)…tuck your tail between your STUPID, UNEDUCATED legs and scamper away.

  123. DAVID REALLY SUCKS!! Says:

    BTW, my chipper little friend, before you belittle every possible person for their misspelled words and grammatical errors, you should check your own.

    And to all the other people above, I’ll pitch in for the plane ticket, too!!!!! But David’s too chicken to leave the safety of our freedom-abounding country…he’d be squashed like the pathetic little bug he really is.

    Enjoy your TV dinner, David. Tell your Mom I said “Hi” and that it’s time for new boxer shorts, the current ones seem to be full of shit.

  124. David Says:

    Hello “David Reallt Sucks!!”,
    If you really are a Christian, poor Jesus …
    Jesus has a bunch of hate-filled teabaggers as his followers. Why did he even bother? Christianity is blasphemed by the Christians.
    Are you a patriot? God help America! Is it any wonder that America’s fortunes are declining like a falling brick when her most loyal patriots are uneducated stupid idiots who confuse pissing on the flag with true patriotism?
    Jesus doesn’t love you. To hell you shall go!

  125. Dylan Says:

    silent majority,

    I didn’t get back to you straight away. In the meantime, there’s been another minor flame war, so I forgive you if you’ve lost interest and wandered away.

    There are plenty of theories about forcing triggers for climate change, many of which have been proven consistent (as far as they can be without the benefit of a world in a test tube and infinite time in a lab.)

    What differentiates our present situation is that there is no external forcing trigger for the current phase of global warming.

    If there have been no “sun spots, axis tilts, magnetic pole shifts, shifting tectonic plates, land mass drift, asteroid strikes, and volcanic activity” recently, then why is the climate changing?

    The answer appears to be that the change is largely brought about by human activity. That’s currently the most strongly supported theory. Is there an alternative?

    There’s a river near my house that floods from time to time. The 100 year flood level is not too far from the end of my yard. We know that when it rains a lot up river in the catchment, that the river swells and occasionally floods. We can predict the flood by observing the natural and cyclical rainfall patterns to our west.

    There are plans afoot to dam our river. When the wall goes up, and the water rises, suddenly all my previous observations of weather and pattern are moot. Human-initiated change comes to my river, and it floods all the time.

    The arguments of climate change contrarians sound like someone standing on the dam wall and shouting that there will be no flood, or that the floods will be no worse, because there has been no change in the rain. All the time the sluice gates draw closed.

    Sorry to get all metaphoric on y’all. Don’t know what came over me.

  126. Brian Says:

    Hi Dylan,
    As the funny bullshit artist stirrer man appears to be asleep at present, but (hopefully) has left his still baited line in the water, here’s one he can reel in when he awakes:
    Came across this article in the daily paper, so we know it is true. (I can only pass on other peoples theories as i am not competant to comment on worldly matters, right David?).
    CLIMATE THEORY CATCHES COLD
    Europe’s big freeze is the start of a worldwide trend towards colder weather that challenges global warming theories, some scientists argued yesterday.
    The world has entered a “cold mode” that is likely to bring a global dip in temperatures, which will last for 20 to 30 years, they say.
    The predictions are based on an analysis of natural cycles in water temperatures in the Pacific and Atlantic oceans. Some experts believe these cycles – and not human pollution – can explain all the major changes in world temperatures in the 20th century.
    The research has been carried out by climate scientists including Prof Mojib Latif, a leading member of the UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.

    No idea what all the above has to do with the Door-to-hell gas crater, but hopefully will inspire David to greater heights. (He can be Hilarious).

  127. Geophysicist Says:

    That is a nice hole. Really could do without the political/religious/state of the union – world personal extrapolation. But since it is here I will add my bit.

    Yes we could all use a macroeconomics refresher to see how we got to the this point since
    WWII. Make laws for the people not for Congress. KBO Kick the Bastards Out with term limits.

    However after reading this I must ask David some questions too.

    Can you try cutting back on the Brawndo? I know its got electrolytes for plants like you that we turn into posts but the caffeine is kicking in to much.

    David how old are you?

    How many blogs and forum threads do you ruin each day?

    You seem to enjoy using that word so much that you must enjoy its double entendre. Is it
    that you actually enjoy placing or having someones scrotum placed in your mouth or on
    your face or head?

    Are you gay or into BSDM?

    Or is this something you picked up in online gaming?, and if so do you own any real guns?

    You are obviously out of your tree. I doubt you will understand what that means. Have you
    considered living in a tent? Good luck finding one that doesn’t increase your carbon footprint. Joining the homeless tent city? Bummer no Internet there. You’d be doing your part though by not posting pointless trollfests wasting storage on servers all over the net on massive server farms storing your highly educated posts for eternity powered by coalfired gasfired powerplants and hydroelectric fish blocking dams.

    If your so educated tell me where you were educated and what degrees are you seeking or have you acheived? My bet is you are a highschool punk and perhaps even younger as you seem to act about age 14. Perhaps its the Brawndo.

    What do you want to do for a living? Be a plumber? Electrician? Carpenter? No those must
    be to low of a job for you to do cause you’re so educated. Besides you don’t need them if your living outside using portable toilets. Maybe you can be the honeybucket man? Seriously think about it next time you turn on a light or a faucet or use a toilet or plug your computer in.

    You will have to pay bills at some point for things like trolling forums and blogs on the
    Internet all day long. Though Gollum having a job would cut into your precious.

    What is your plan for housing yourself? Government subsidized housing? Are you going to
    sell crack for a living? Let us support you in jail?

    You think you have all the answers yet its obvious you don’t have a clue. What really is bugging you? Couldn’t afford a plane ticket to Copenhagen to protest, or the carbon release flying there? Or problems with getting an entry visa/ passport?

    You should live in a European country for a while and see how you like it. Try a socialist
    one like Sweden where you can pay 70% or your income tax. Oh right you don’t have a
    job or house so taxes don’t matter to you. Try being an entrepreneur and starting a business there. Hell you are lucky to live in a country that doesn’t press you into service for 2 years like most European countries. They don’t like some of the people they have absorbed either so they may not like you either.

    Take a class in public speaking/writing please because you totally suck at it. Theres so
    much hate in your posts its obvious you are not happy with where you are at in life so please own your own problem and do something about it. Make your own life better. It takes effort but really please work at it. We need your help to fix both the USA’s and the global problems and starting with yourself is the best thing you can do. Please take this seriously as life is not here for you to be angry and hate.

  128. Dylan Says:

    Brian,
    Suggest you return to the source on that one. Here’s a good commentary on the misrepresentation of Mojib Latif’s work in the press (which they are again jumping on, it seems.): http://thingsbreak.wordpress.com/2009/09/11/of-moles-and-whacking-mojib-latif-predicted-two-decades-of-cooling/

    As I mentioned above in a previous response, all this media focus on cold weather is at the expense of other parts of the globe that are substantially warmer than normal too. But nobody cares about those bits!

  129. Brian Says:

    Dylan,
    Any report from anyone associated with the IPCC, in any capacity, should be considered somewhat suss, newspaper reported or not. Misrepresentation appears their forte. (IPCC and newspapers both).
    And somebody does care about those other bits of the globe. We who live there for starters.

  130. Dylan Says:

    Well, I’ll give Latif the benefit of the doubt. He did say “If my name was not Mojib Latif, my name would be global warming. So I really believe in Global Warming. Okay. However, you know, we have to accept that there are these natural fluctuations, and therefore, the temperature may not show additional warming temporarily.”
    (from http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=120668812&ft=1&f=1007 via http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mojib_Latif)

  131. David Says:

    Hello Brian,
    * “Came across this article in the daily paper, so we know it is true. (I can only pass on other peoples theories as i am not competant to comment on worldly matters, right David?). ”
    Evidently you are not competent to comment on any matter which requires a sand grain’s worth of knowledge.
    * “CLIMATE THEORY CATCHES COLD
    Europe’s big freeze is the start of a worldwide trend towards colder weather that challenges global warming theories, some scientists argued yesterday.
    The world has entered a “cold mode” that is likely to bring a global dip in temperatures, which will last for 20 to 30 years, they say. ”
    Conservatives are so gullible it is really pathetic. Conservatives have blind faith in the computer models of kooks and yet reject outright the conclusions of science. This is a sign of desperation and intellectual dishonesty such as is common exhibited by creationists.
    * “The predictions are based on an analysis of natural cycles in water temperatures in the Pacific and Atlantic oceans. Some experts believe these cycles – and not human pollution – can explain all the major changes in world temperatures in the 20th century. ”
    This is a lie, plain and simply, written for the sake of scientifically illiterate conservative dupes.
    Then Brian ends with this gem of conservative stupidity …
    * “Any report from anyone associated with the IPCC, in any capacity, should be considered somewhat suss, newspaper reported or not. Misrepresentation appears their forte. (IPCC and newspapers both). ”
    Like the creationists, the pro-pollution conservatives outright deny all of science on behalf of their political cause. They would rather close their eyes and ears rather than suffer an encounter with reality contrary to their own personal preferences.
    It is impossible to engage in a scientific argument with those who reject science. The conservatives have chosen to live with a 18th century anti-science mindset.

  132. David Says:

    Hello Geophysicist,
    Reading through your inchorent babble suggests to me that you are not a geophysicist since it is quite obvious that you are not educated.
    Poor bitter conservative nobody … keep on crying. Conservatives are sad and angry all of the time, otherwise they wouldn’t have any reason to be conservative.
    Go listen to Rush Limbaugh or watch Glenn Beck, those two are more suitable to an intellect of your low wattage.
    Is there any such thing as an educated conservative? Educated conservatives must have gone extinct.

  133. Brian Says:

    Hello Mr bullshit stirrer man,
    If my little “gem” caused you such apoplexy, I dread what directing you to the following website will do. Suggest you have mica paramedics on standby before you open it. I think I feel guilty already for alerting you to it.

    http://www.heartland.org/article/26397/Climate_Science_Corrupted.html

  134. David Really Sucks Says:

    You know, I thought someone on this thread may be able to get David to actually say something other than “stupid, uneducated, teabagger, conservative”, but, alas, we all have failed. I think it is because he doesn’t have anything else TO say. He has NOT ONCE given any information that is even remotely interesting/informative. He side steps all questions directed at him with his monotonous name-calling; he can’t even come up with original words!! He calls everyone else stupid and uneducated, then provides no insight as to the level of education he has attained, which is likely his GED at best. His massive overuse of the above mentioned words is definitely indicative of his limited vocabulary. He is a bitter, lonely man who can only get his jollies by trying to get a rise out of other people online, probably because he has no one else to converse with as you can just about imagine that would be as fun as bashing your hand repeatedly with a hammer. I do feel as if he probably lives in a basement, because if he every ventured out, someone would surely put him out of his (our) misery. I suggest that no one even respond to him; he is a cyber-bully..that’s all. Nothing special.
    He can’t even make up his mind as to his own beliefs. He bashes “creationists” then actually has the audacity to talk about God and list scriptures!!!! WHAT!!! Pick a side and stick with it.
    P.S. I love science and I love God. I can’t imagine anyone studying the limitlessly fascinating world of science and NOT believe in God. He has provided us with more mysteries than we will ever be able to solve.

  135. David Says:

    Hello Brian,

    * “If my little “gem” caused you such apoplexy, I dread what directing you to the following website will do. Suggest you have mica paramedics on standby before you open it. I think I feel guilty already for alerting you to it. ”
    If you are stupid enough to believe anything the Heartland Institute says you are very stupid indeed!

  136. David Says:

    Hello “David Really Sucks”,
    * “P.S. I love science and I love God. I can’t imagine anyone studying the limitlessly fascinating world of science and NOT believe in God. He has provided us with more mysteries than we will ever be able to solve. ”
    God suffers from the idiocy of his followers. Pity poor Jesus having to spend eternity with the teabaggers … hope that there aren’t any non-white people in Heaven or it is going to be one very unhappy place for the conservatives!

  137. silent majority Says:

    Glad you’re back Dylan. I’d like to question whether or not there is an external forcing trigger. It would be an easy assumption to presume a certain specific set of criteria is factual then jump to the most “logical” conclusion that would support ones desired outcome. It happens all the time with surveys and research. As quoted by Criminologist Gary Kleck in an article on gun control–“research designed to arrive at an ideologically predetermined conclusion”. As scientific as any research can get, the conclusion can always be made to fit a predetermined outcome and appear to be supported by “facts”.
    I’m not trying to impugn ALL research or researchers… I’m just saying that outcomes presented as factual must be carefully scrutinized to make sure there is no hidden agenda which might be the driving force behind the research in the first place. And then there is the credibility of the researchers’ to consider. For instance, I would not put Al Gore, GE, or extreme leftists who have obvious agendas of personal enrichment in the same category as say NASA or NOAA. Maybe not a perfect comparison but I think you get my point. Each group would choose only criteria that would support their own desired outcomes. And then there’s the East Anglia e-mail scandal which didn’t do much good for the credibility of the entire subject of global warming. And let’s not forget the UN’s agenda of redistributing gobs of trillions from rich polluting countries to third world countries (“to make it fair”) who would inevitably steal and squander their windfall. Now back to External Forcing Triggers for a moment. Two that I can think of that get very little publicity are spewing massive amounts of greenhouse gasses 24/7/365. First, lets not forget the 25,000 mile fault line commonly referred to as the “Ring of Fire” with thousands of volcanoes in a constant state of eruption. Since they are covered by miles of deep ocean and there is absolutely no technology available to monitor their output, how does one gauge their influence on climate change? It would be ridiculous to assume that their output doesn’t nor hasn’t varied for eons!
    A couple of weeks ago there was a video clip on cable news of one of these spewing volcanoes taken by somebody’s deep sea submersible but it got yanked rather quickly. Then there’s the deep sea Methane fields bubbling gas daily. Some is locked in frozen “pillows” on the sea floor and some gets released into the atmosphere. Again, no way to monitor nor gauge it’s effect on GW either. Although it has been presented as theory that it may have been responsible for bringing planes and ships down in the Bermuda Triangle! (I think that theory got debunked on Mythbusters) Are we also to assume that this output is constant thereby it is a non factor in the GW argument? I’m just saying Dylan that there are so many variables, who’s to say there has to be one or two that become the triggers? Maybe it’s very minute changes too small to think important in many variables at the same time! Maybe we don’t even know all the variables yet. Do you remember when the world was flat? Or, “man’s not supposed to go that fast”, or “It’ll never fly”, etc. etc. It wasn’t that long ago. For me, the jury’s not in on global warming yet. I believe the subject has merit… but we don’t have all the data, and were not gonna get all the data. We’re only gonna get the data we’re allowed to have because this argument has been hijacked by a group of Global Elitists and turned into the biggest scam ever perpetrated on mankind.
    Global Warming along with Cap and Trade, Universal Healthcare, Solar and Wind Power and bans on tapping our own oil and coal reserves are all part of a much larger plan to plunder the wealth of the rich industrious nations in the name of “saving the planet”. Although Global Warming has some merit, it is miniscule compared to what we are allowing to happen to us. We are being led like sheep, on skewed data, with blinders on towards a conclusion that none of us will like, especially our children and grandchildren. We are allowing ourselves to be taxed into poverty and ruled by the elites in an overgrown government who will live lavishly while “the people” will be expected to live in 15th century squalor. It has happened many times before on this planet and now it’s about to happen again, to the greatest society ever evolved in history. Let’s make sure before it gets crammed down our throats prematurely that the data is complete, that it hasn’t been altered or otherwise skewed, and we aren’t just being sold a bill of goods. Let’s check the agendas of the proponents and make sure there’s nothing hidden. And finally, there is a reason that public confidence is at 15% toward the print media and many are going bankrupt. We’ve been lied to before. Are we being lied to now?

  138. Brian Says:

    Hi David old son,
    Glad you are OK. Bit disappointed in your responses though, given the lead-in info/ammo you were provided. Funny, but not hilarious, not your best work. See if you can do better with the following link. (You do write your own gags, don’t you?)

    http://d4072.mysite.westnethosting.com.au/climate/Climate&Carbon.pdf

    By the way, do you have a video of your routine you can post on utube?

  139. metal Says:

    put a stupid straw in it and suck the good stuff out and use the buring energy thats allready happening some people need a clue

  140. Dylan Says:

    silent,
    The ring of fire theory has been considered but observation and theory don’t match. If the outgassings of volcanos were responsible for increses in CO2, then the contemporary record would show spikes and troughs in the record, not to mention peaks in atmospheric CO2 closer to the source. (You can’t put sensors on the volcanos, but you can monitor the atmosphere above them.) Neither of these expected observations occur. Instead, we have a slow and steady rise in global atmospheric concentrations of CO2 with no spikes except for a fixed seasonal rhythm. I don’t think volcanos erupt more in April every single year! (http://www.globalwarmingart.com/wiki/Carbon_Dioxide_Gallery)
    New research on Methane venting in the Arctic is almost ready for publication, but early info is not encouraging (see http://climatechangepsychology.blogspot.com/2010/01/bbc-igor-semiletov-methane-release-from.html) Methane is a powerful greenhouse gas, and by allowing our climate to be artificially warmed by our excess release of CO2, it seems we may have accelerated the natural release of Methane into the atmosphere. That’s a shame, because over the last 8 years or so, Methane levels in the atmosphere have been pretty static (thought to be partly due to the eradication of natural wetland areas, which previously contributed methane to the atmosphere.) Now they are on the march again (http://www.csiro.au/news/GlobalMethaneRising.html) and I agree that Methane has a part to play in climate change.
    When you question whether there is an external forcing trigger at all, you are questioning whether there is any global climate change at all. This would fly in the face of most research. Even most contrarians these days accept that change is happening, they just don’t agree that any of it is human initiated.
    I don’t think you will find me presenting anything here as factual. However, you show both a grasp of scientific method, and simultanous disdain for same method.
    When trying to determine what a forcing trigger might be, a scientist will make an educated guess about what the trigger could be, and then determine what evidence would be required to support or deny that theory. Then they will comb the body of evidence that already exists, and perhaps gather some of their own, to support or deny the theory. Finally, once the theory and its evidence is published, the entire scientific community will have the ability to take a crack at the job too. There isn’t much room for fabrication of evidence in this scenario (not to say that it doesn’t happen, but it is usually detected.)
    And believe it or not, the theories are revised all the time. Initial estimates of the impact on the environment of CO2 were inaccurate and have been greatly refined since they were first expressed in the late 1800s.
    There seems to be a lot of angst about the prospect of climate change somehow thrusting civilization back to the dark ages (whilst privaleged elites sit back laughing at our foolishness.) Perhaps this derives from a feeling that to do anything about the issue is too hard on an individual level (see all the comments about becoming a vegan neo-hippie above directed at David.) But there are concrete steps that you can take relatively easily, and that are also good for your economy. “Buy Local” is a strong campaign that runs in our area. Solar power is well supported in my community too, I have solar panels on my roof, and so do most of my neighbours, and they make excellent economic sense for us. These are incremental changes that are being made piece by piece. It is not (yet) necessary for us to shed our clothes and retreat to caves in order to survive, but to resist incremental change is ultimately going to be as counterproductive.

  141. David Says:

    Hello Brian,
    * “Glad you are OK. Bit disappointed in your responses though, given the lead-in info/ammo you were provided. Funny, but not hilarious, not your best work. See if you can do better with the following link. (You do write your own gags, don’t you?) ”
    Brian, Brian, Brian … you are trying so very hard and all your efforts are in vain. You are on the anti-science notjob side of this argument and it is easy to find websites spouting all sorts of anti-science nonsense by scientific sounding idiots with an agenda, see for example:

    http://www.icr.org/
    So your ability to produce a link to a document on the internet is about as impressive as, well, nothing … because any nutjob can write whatever they wish on the internet and there are millions of uneducated people — such as yourself — who are gullible enough to believe it.
    Yet you cannot trust the conclusions of science. Conservatives sure are silly!

  142. Dylan Says:

    Brian,
    This “article” (editorial, really, and unpublished as well) manages to cram a lot of climate skeptic myth into one piece. I’m impressed.
    Canards about water vapour, the small role of humans, interstellar dust, and so on, are entertaining, but there is so much research around to debunk this kind of thinking that it’s hardly worth bothering. Nevertheless, if you want an education in contrarian argument, take a look at it.
    The most compelling assertion that Vikingur makes is that Carbon Dioxide by itself cannot be responsible for all of global warming (because it is physically impossible.)
    I don’t think anyone has argued that, and current research indicates that CO2 is responsible for between 9 and 30 percent of warming. But it is a significant agent (the single most significant gas), and one which we humans are largely repsonsible for vastly increasing atmospheric concentrations of, and potentially have a great degree of control over.

    Are there any other arguments Einar makes that you particularly admire? If you could give me a specific, it would save me a lot of time running around debunking the stuff that you already know about.

  143. David Says:

    Hello silent majorty,
    * “Global Warming along with Cap and Trade, Universal Healthcare, Solar and Wind Power and bans on tapping our own oil and coal reserves are all part of a much larger plan to plunder the wealth of the rich industrious nations in the name of “saving the planet” ”
    The United States of America is in debt to the tune of $12 trillion and rising fast and there is also the small matter of trillions of unfunded liabilities …
    So what the hell wealth are you trying to protect?
    The United States isn’t a rich nation, it is a bankrupt insolvent nation. Don’t blame the climatologists for this unfortunate status … blame the American people who foolishly squandering their wealth on a binge of hyperconsumerism and morbidly obese living.
    At the present moment you continue to exist in your present standard of living because of the welfare provided by China, the oil producing nations and the impoverished people of the Third World.
    So there is no wealth left to plunder. You can stop clinging to your dollar bills because they will soon become worthless.

  144. Brian Says:

    Dylan,
    Learned people aplenty on both sides of the great debate profess to know the answers. I don’t know the answers, and I don’t think in our lifetime, or mine anyway, that we will really know. Meantime I am happy to risk being the messenger who gets shot and share any texts that come my way.

  145. better then you Says:

    “From the comments it is evident that Americans rank among the stupidest and most scientifically illiterate people on the planet. Don’t worry, I won’t waste my time attempting to educate you. An education would be lost on you people. Best to leave the stupid to their talk radio and fox news. Delusions never die.” Dude david so much for not wasting your precious time educating us “stupid, ignorant america’s?!” From what all I read of ur absolutely ridiculous comments trying to make urself look smarter then a 5th grader, I’m going to have to say go home if u don’t like americans! And teabaggers wow good one smart scientist. Wtf kind of name is that? And while ur on here replying to my comment to ur dumb ass…. u can shove that 9 inch dildo u got hidden in ur dresser as far up ur ass as possible! One more thing mind mastibatur…. U remind of hitler using such “powerful” words that it excites u enough to have an orgasm in your pants! Deuces 😉

  146. Buster Says:

    One word… SMORES!!!!

  147. benjamin Says:

    I don’t mean to interrupt anyone but, david, I’d like to know why it is that you seem to assume, that all American people are the same. I’m slightly offended that you would unabashedly claim that I’m a conservative teabagger that lives in the south.

    I mean no offense to anyone of course.

  148. Dylan Says:

    Brian et al,
    This thread seems to have reached a critical mass. I doubt there will be anything worth reading from here on in (I’m sure many of you have long since reached that conclusion.) I think I’ve addressed all the issues I’ve seen raised, so bid you all adieu, and hope to see you on another thread some day.

  149. David Says:

    Hello Dylan
    See Americans are the stupidest people in the world I see you are weak and I am smarter than you so I will win as I am the smartest in the world. I am also the best assucker in the world.

  150. David Says:

    please beat my ass I enjoy it and no doubt deserve it cause my name is David and you are uneducated

  151. Stuart Says:

    David,
    and to think all this ranting and raving started
    about results of the Darvaza Well!!!
    someone has eaten too much chocolate and has
    entirely too much time on their hands..
    Get a Life.!!!

  152. David Says:

    Hello Everyone,
    I hope that you understand that there is more than one person named “David” in this world so you should not confuse the “David” (without a link) with myself.
    Needless to say, there are unfortunate people on the internet who posts messages under false pretense and a false name because these people have hollow empty meaningless lives and their small minds are filled with hate, anger, bitterness and frivolity.
    The conservatives are especially bitter because they are engaged in a war with science which they cannot win and they have become a politically irrelevant extremist party led by idiotic nutjobs such as Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin.
    Needless to say, the teabaggers haven’t a hope or any happiness in this world and there is no future world for them at all. Jesus doesn’t love you. If He did He would have returned a long time ago.

  153. Jenny Says:

    WOW…After reading through this thread it’s obvious the non-conservative antagonizer in this thread has got to be the most bitter, lost person I’ve heard yet. There are actually scientists on both sides (in case you didn’t know)…. and guess what…… OBAMA IS HALF-WHITE!!!! Idiot….

  154. puzzled South African Says:

    What a bunch of degenerates !!!
    Isnt this about a firey pit in the Karakorum and not an international cow-pat flinging compo ?

    If you want to call each other names, do so on the playground.

  155. David Says:

    Hello Jenny-the-Teabagging-Racist,
    Of course, Jenny, there are scientists on “both sides” of this issue, just as there are scientists who insist that the Earth is less than 10,000 years old and that Adam and Eve had pet dinosaurs.
    The scientists on your side are lying to you. They can do so easily since conservatives rank among the least educated and least informed people on the planet.
    When a teabagger says, “OBAMA IS HALF-WHITE!!!!” you can be quite certain that the teabagger hates the black half of Obama.
    Stop being stupid. Educate yourself. Climate change is a life and death issue.
    We live on a dangerous planet. Ask the people of Haiti. Humans cannot make a mess of this planet and expect a happy outcome.

  156. Homer Simpson Says:

    Doooh!

  157. steve Says:

    long angry emails are causing climate change.

  158. David Says:

    I like putting scrotums in my mouth. Please Teabag me.

  159. Jody Says:

    He who argues with a fool, is a fool.

  160. David Says:

    Seems like the bitter sad conservative loser nobody has become a bit more intelligent in his stupidity as he says …

    * “I like putting scrotums in my mouth. Please Teabag me. ”

    Spoken like a true Republican, like a true conservative, like a true no-name nobody anonymous conservative loser.

    Pitiful anonymous conservative nobody … has life gotten you down, are you depressed, do you feel irrelevant and worthless.

    You feel all these things because they are true. No go craw back under your rock and continue living like a dung beetle.

  161. Rusty Says:

    Hi David sorry so many mean people here. Where are you from? What do you do?

  162. STRENN (S.Africa) Says:

    Hey David, you on a roll dude.
    Americans are the self proclaimed global police who are actually responsible for all the global destruction and genocide in most Arab countries, yet the U.S still claim its innocence in the name of international peacekeeping.
    N.B U.S govt. is the most corrupt in the world, who’s countrymen are led like sheep to graze off all the buls##t their Govt. dishes out to its people. A naive violent nation of warmongers, murderers,paedofiles and the like.

    Well that aside, guys with all the buls##t I’ve read on this thread, you lot of American simpletons, so called educated scientists need to go out there and just darn enjoy this wonder.
    I have been there twice already, and would drag friends there over and over again. This crater is fiery awesome, its like staring into Hell itself.
    One would have to be there to appreciate its spendour and magnificence.
    So all you mogghead American so called scientists
    forget the ideas of covering, capturing building a plany etc.
    Some things are just better off, left alone without human interference.
    The crater is proof itself.

  163. The devil Says:

    All this discussions about the door to my palace…seems like alot of u will be entering my door..cant wait to see u all

  164. Alaska Man Says:

    Looks like a cool idea for “Burning Man”. How do we make one in the Nevada desert?

  165. Donald Rumsfeld Says:

    Welcome to my home, how nice to see you? The gang’s all here: Bush, Rice, Powell, and of course my favorites, Rove and Cheney.

  166. Fischkopp Says:

    Admin, plz close this cave to trap the troll finally.
    A lot is said , and i guess the more technical / science guys are already far away to have an exchange in other forums.
    Indeed this crater is not anymore the entrance to hell, it is the gate of mordor with a troll behind

  167. Davis Says:

    Entrance to…”hell”?? A reminder to would-be believers in some fiery place of torture that this crater was NOT burning UNTIL geologists set it ablaze. Yes, that’s right: it was just a rather large hole in the ground leeching deadly natural gasses (not very different from the crater of certain live volcanoes, which have been ablaze within the earth since the beginning).

    Thinking should always preclude thoughtless speech….

  168. Fischkopp Says:

    i was thinking the troll is dead..but i was wrong.

  169. Hangshai Says:

    Roger go home.

  170. nygrump Says:

    “Global warming…that is about as fake as liberals themselves.”

    what makes the nazis so insecure that they have to constantly trash ‘liberals’ whatever that means.

  171. GS Says:

    It seems to me that they’re missing a good bet here for power generation in the area. I’m sure some bright engineering types could come up with something to utilize this source of heat and transform it to electrical energy. Even if the area is as desolate as it looks, power lines could direct it wherever necessary. It would also provide employment and better income for the populace, a source of revenue for the government, and become an even greater tourist attraction.

  172. Steve Says:

    David you’re a real ignorant dick mate.

  173. John Madison Says:

    I agree with Dave 100%. I’m sick and tired of stupid people. There’s a great line from “As Good As It Gets” by Jacks character. “I’m drowning here and you’re describing the water!” The reason I enjoy it so much is this is exactly how conservatives argue their “points.” If I say I don’t believe in a god they’ll argue that there is something wrong with me that has nothing to do with my belief system. This is how I know I’m right, because a conservative has no basis to argue and they know it. They know there is no philosophical or psychological argument that backs up their belief system until they throw the word “faith” into the mix. Faith just means you believe in something that you know doesn’t exist. IE; bologna. Who cares if global warming is real or not, how about just behave as if you care about the planet and that’s a good start. Shouldn’t we be doing all the things tree hugging liberals are spouting anyhow? Isn’t that the responsible thing to do in the first place? I don’t like labels and I don’t vote because the whole political process is just that, a political process. But I do know that if one believes in themselves, trys to protect all living things and doesn’t lie, their lives will be much better in the long run. So stop eating red meat and pork and try a cage free, roaming free chicken or egg once in a while. It’ll only make you feel better because you’ve done something for your body, for animals and for the planet. Start acting responsibly and be a better person for it. By the way, nice hole.

  174. Mike Says:

    All this goings on about wasted energy and pollution is pointless.One volcano goes off and it will put out more gases than a thousand “Hells Gates” could ever put out…They go off under the oceans all the time.As for global warming it is known that it is cyclic…ice ages come and go.Everything in the universe is cyclic…has it’s spring,summer.fall & winter.This earth is approaching winter.I doo agree with an earlier post in which it was stated that it is all about money and control…If there was an advantage for an oil company to be there getting the gas,well they would be there.As for extinguishing the fire and capping the hole,thats not a problem.Here in Okla.as well as around the world and as you recall in Kuwait, after the 1st gulf war,Red Adairs oilfield team put out the fires.I think man adds to the pollution but mother nature with her forrest fires,volcanoes and underwater methane releases does a much better job.As for insulting any one nations intelligence,well thats pretty shallow.We all have our share of ignorant and uninformed people.No nation has a monopoly when it comes to that.

  175. Squareroot Says:

    ” A naive violent nation of warmongers, murderers,paedofiles and the like. ”

    Strenn you obviously have never been to the US.
    There are plenty of good ppl here and we don’t like having to foot the bill to be the global police force and foreign aid supplier.

    However when nukes start going off in your backyard or others what do you think we as a country as any other country should do stick our heads in the sand and ignore it?

    Are you actually South African? And if so are you white or black and where do you live?

    Your hate america sounds more like an ayatola speech with no knowledge of the US or its people.
    You must only read or hear any bad news.

    Frankly I agree with Steve and the same goes for you “David you’re a real ignorant dick mate.”

  176. KabelYaache Says:

    Take the entire House and the Senate – and the Clintons – and Gore, and throw them in the crater.
    That will either put the fire out – out of pure disgust, or it will guarantee a nice burn for another 37 years…

  177. ManMachine Says:

    David,

    I suggest that if you want to do something about global warming (GW) and reducing your carbon footprint, that you close your pie-hole first. Remember your first teabagging and water sports session with your loving father? Nice huh? It wouldn’t have been as fun in the cold…

    GW is a God-send. Plants and trees thrive on CO2. The people in Greenland can’t wait for the ice to melt so they can drill for/pump oil and commence mining operations. You think the Nordic countries, Siberia and Northern Canada wouldn’t like a little nicer weather.

    Don’t let your keen observance, ingestion and regurgitation of the 24hr news cycle cloud your better judgement. You think earthquakes, droughts, floods, hurricanes and tsunamis haven’t happened before in frequency and magnitude as what you are seeing now? Think about the paradox of the falling tree, woods and making a sound (?).

    You have done nothing but parrot what you have been told by your sorry high street rags (right next to the latest on Jordan’s tits). Keep believing everything you read and hear. The IPCC is a fraud with an covert agenda and it isn’t about saving the planet. I really wish we would hold a national referendum about getting the US out of the UN and the UN out of the US.

    At the end of the day I’m really starting to enjoy the (supposed) world view held of Americans, that we are all fat, lazy, stupid, racist, toting guns, carrying a flag with a bible under our arms. As an expatriate American who has lived overseas for a number of years it is generally only easily influenced provincial types (owning a mac and or iphone doesn’t make you cosmopolitan) that tend to hold this view of us anyway.

    On top of it you just don’t understand how economics work David. The Saudis give us oil and the Chinese give us cheap junk for Wal-Mart. We give them credits/paper which they can invest into America or other performing assets, buy needed commodities on the world markets OR save and collect interest. Can it go on forever? No, but it should say something that, as smart (-; as the Chinese/Asians are, that they choose to hold paper…

    I really think at the end of the day they wouldn’t let you in Teabagistan and you got deported to Lameistan. Luckily you got refuge in the US, but this act your playing isn’t the most endearing, so now you are bitter Betty!

    Peace from,

    Groovyistan

  178. Scott Brown Says:

    Thanks to all you “www.vacationideas.me” voters! You did what had to be done to make David really have a melt-down and commit suicide!

  179. silent majority Says:

    Well put Mike and ManMachine. I haven’t been around for a while but I see the debate is still continuing. There were some very good debates going on but most participants have since left due to the childish behavior of one persistent ignoramus. You may enjoy checking out the following posts, along with those of Dylan, Geophysicist and rock digger starting around the 6thof this month.

    Excerpts from Post #114
    For the past several years I have listened to, watched and read about the subject of Global Warming intently. It is blatantly obvious who are promoting the subject for the reason of “personal gain” and who are promoting the “facts” as based upon differing interpretations and opinions of past and current scientific data. The conclusion I have come to respect is that of those who believe the current data neither supports nor denies an absolute value in the role of mankind as a major progenitor in this latest episode of climate change, be it warming or cooling.

    I am convinced of this; the earth’s climate has reacted cyclically to any number of influences, be they sun spots, axis tilts, magnetic pole shifts, shifting tectonic plates, land mass drift, asteroid strikes, and volcanic activity for 4.5 billion years and will continue to do so for the next billions of years with or without mankind’s influence.

    In geological time, humans have been around less than the width of a pencil line on the scale. If you narrow that down to the last two hundred years since we have actually entered the “pollution mode”, (that = .00000+39 – 4’s as a percentage) one would have to be extremely arrogant to assume that humans have so much power that we could upset the entire balance of the earth’s climate in such a short time all by ourselves. I am not denying that humans contribute, I’m just saying that the amount of actual change that could be attributed directly to human activity would be barely measurable considering all the natural forces that are known to affect the climate.

    My personal opinion is that humans have about as much influence on global climate change as a leaf floating down the Mississippi River has in determining the course of that river.

    Excerpts from Post #137
    As quoted by Criminologist Gary Kleck in an article on gun control–“research designed to arrive at an ideologically predetermined conclusion”. As scientific as any research can get, the conclusion can always be made to fit a predetermined outcome and appear to be supported by “facts”.
    I’m just saying that outcomes presented as factual must be carefully scrutinized to make sure there is no hidden agenda.
    For me, the jury’s not in on global warming yet. I believe the subject has merit… but we don’t have all the data, and were not gonna get all the data. We’re only gonna get the data we’re allowed to have because this argument has been hijacked by a group of Global Elitists and turned into the biggest scam ever perpetrated on mankind.
    Global Warming along with Cap and Trade, Universal Healthcare, Solar and Wind Power and bans on tapping our own oil and coal reserves are all part of a much larger plan to plunder the wealth of the rich industrious nations in the name of “saving the planet”.

  180. Giggles Says:

    I am rather curious on this hell thing. I went to school and if I can remember correctly, fire needs oxygen to burn. Now, thinking this over, I have to wonder, how is it the gas can burn deep in a hole without oxygenfrom above. Ya see, heat rises and fire burns oxygen, so wheres the oxygen coming from to keep the fires burning.

    Don’t make sense to me. What about you.

  181. Thomas Says:

    To DAVID.

    Being an atheist (myself as well) but citing the bible as your reason is also contrary. You are just a fake. You seem to enjoy being mean to everyone who comments in here instead of having an intellectual conversation. I enjoyed reading your comments and rants, but not because of its content, but yourself, how ridiculous you appear. I do not know what is wrong with you, but there certainly is. Maybe you have a small dick syndrome. What do I know or care. In your view I would be just another stupid ‘American’, although I am European. And by the way ‘The United Stated of America’ is commonly referred to as ‘America’. No one refers to a south, middle (latin) or north america, but only the U.S.A

    Have you ever been abroad? Doesn’t seem like it, otherwise you would know. I have a recommendation for you, get a woman, when you can manage them not to run off.

  182. silent majority Says:

    Giggles,

    I’m going to assume this is a legitimate question and answer it in a very easy to understand way. The hole is only about as deep as it is wide, it’s not a bottomless pit. As the gasses in the hole are converted to heat energy through fire, the heated gasses rise out of the hole and up into the atmosphere. This creates a low pressure area around the rim of the hole which sucks the surrounding cooler air into the hole thereby supplying the fire with all the oxygen it will ever need. Simple enough?

  183. Randy Says:

    All the pollution ever emitted from this hole doesn’t hold a dime on one day of output of the westernized world.

    Modern airplanes caring dry sodium bicarbonate(dry C02) could easy put out this fire if they wanted.

    Burning off this toxic gas is probably far better than not burning it off; much as modern refineries do with left over hydrogen sulfide mixtures.

  184. David Says:

    OH! I’m so sorry for all the shit I posted and I apologize sincerely to all of you nice people of this thread; Actually, I’m going to take a bath of dung for self punishment….

  185. CannibalRabbi Says:

    A new home for jews.

  186. James Dunet Says:

    The government “solution” to climate change will not end pollution at all. It will simply force the smaller polluters out of the market and give a virtual monolopy to the large industries who will have plenty of money to pay to pollute.

    If solving the climate change “problem” is your goal, you need to craft a solution that allows no one to pollute the planet.

    Since forbidding pollution will cripple major industries, I would not bet on it ever happening. Are YOU going to live without electricity, not drive a car, not eat factory farmed food, not use oil based medicine, fertilizers or pesticides? How about plastic and asphault? They are oil based too. There is a very long list if you want to do a google search for oil based products, not to mention oil based transportation.

    Also, David the Troll: Google search a video called The Greensboro Massacre.

    It is about some anti-racist communists who are holding a “Death to the Klan” Rally. The fun begins when some Klansmen and Neo-Nazis show up to confront the anti-racists. You’ll like it. It happened in the USA in Greensboro 1979.

  187. Croat Azul Says:

    David – “impossible to participate in a debate with scientists who reject my argument.”

    And that’s enough for me!

    Everyone knows that the autumn leaves fall between November is the “cause” of the winter snow falls in January, the correlation is 100%!
    No leaves fall the palms in Tropics,… no snows!

    And in this thread any mention of scientific objectivismo is gas blovation immediate causes of David “for show bleet” that the causes of fire- Darvaza = ‘David’ is probably codenamed the Fembot.

  188. Justmy2cents Says:

    There are 2 sides to every story. Since so much is said about global warming, perhaps everyone could read this news article from the Nationalpost.com

    Scientists using selective temperature data, skeptics say
    Richard Foot, Canwest News Service
    Published: Wednesday, January 20, 2010

    Call it the mystery of the missing thermometers.

    Two months after “climategate” cast doubt on some of the science behind global warming, new questions are being raised about the reliability of a key temperature database, used by the United Nations and climate change scientists as proof of recent planetary warming.

    Two American researchers allege that U.S. government scientists have skewed global temperature trends by ignoring readings from thousands of local weather stations around the world, particularly those in colder altitudes and more northerly latitudes, such as Canada.

    In the 1970s, nearly 600 Canadian weather stations fed surface temperature readings into a global database assembled by the U.S. National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA). Today, NOAA only collects data from 35 stations across Canada.

    Worse, only one station — at Eureka on Ellesmere Island — is now used by NOAA as a temperature gauge for all Canadian territory above the Arctic Circle.

    The Canadian government, meanwhile, operates 1,400 surface weather stations across the country, and more than 100 above the Arctic Circle, according to Environment Canada.

    Yet as American researchers Joseph D’Aleo, a meteorologist, and E. Michael Smith, a computer programmer, point out in a study published on the website of the Science and Public Policy Institute, NOAA uses “just one thermometer [for measuring] everything north of latitude 65 degrees.”

    Both the authors, and the institute, are well-known in climate-change circles for their skepticism about the threat of global warming.

    Mr. D’Aleo and Mr. Smith say NOAA and another U.S. agency, the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS) have not only reduced the total number of Canadian weather stations in the database, but have “cherry picked” the ones that remain by choosing sites in relatively warmer places, including more southerly locations, or sites closer to airports, cities or the sea — which has a warming effect on winter weather.

    Over the past two decades, they say, “the percentage of [Canadian] stations in the lower elevations tripled and those at higher elevations, above 300 feet, were reduced in half.”

    Using the agency’s own figures, Smith shows that in 1991, almost a quarter of NOAA’s Canadian temperature data came from stations in the high Arctic. The same region contributes only 3% of the Canadian data today.

    Mr. D’Aleo and Mr. Smith say NOAA and GISS also ignore data from numerous weather stations in other parts of the world, including Russia, the U.S. and China.

    They say NOAA collects no temperature data at all from Bolivia — a high-altitude, landlocked country — but instead “interpolates” or assigns temperature values for that country based on data from “nearby” temperature stations located at lower elevations in Peru, or in the Amazon basin.

    The result, they say, is a warmer-than-truthful global temperature record.

    “NOAA . . . systematically eliminated 75% of the world’s stations with a clear bias towards removing higher latitude, high altitude and rural locations, all of which had a tendency to be cooler,” the authors say. “The thermometers in a sense, marched towards the tropics, the sea, and to airport tarmacs.”

    The NOAA database forms the basis of the influential climate modelling work, and the dire, periodic warnings on climate change, issued by James Hanson, the director of the GISS in New York.

    Neither agency responded to a request for comment Wednesday from Canwest News Service. However Hanson did issue a public statement on the matter earlier this week.

    “NASA has not been involved in any manipulation of climate data used in the annual GISS global temperature analysis,” he said. “The agency is confident of the quality of this data and stands by previous scientifically-based conclusions regarding global temperatures.”

    In addition to the allegations against NOAA and GISS, climate scientists are also dealing with the embarrassment this week of the false glacier-melt warning contained in the 2007 report of the UN Panel on Climate Change. That report said Himalayan glaciers are likely to disappear within three decades if current rates of melting continue.

    This week, however, the panel admitted there is no scientific evidence to support such a claim.

    The revelations come only two months after the “climategate” scandal, in which the leak or theft of thousands of e-mails — private discussions between scientists in the U.S. and Britain — showed that a group of influential climatologists tried for years to manipulate global warming data, rig the scientific peer-review process and keep their methods secret from other, contrary-minded researchers.

  189. Scott Brown Says:

    Gee, David, I was only joking.

    Come on back and play with us?

    Maybe you’re busy consoling Ms. Coakley up here in MA, fighting off all the other “teabaggers” who voted against her and Obama Bin Laden’s agenda?

    Brrr… It sure is cold up here in this “globally warmed” state, isn’t it? Sure wish someone would light part of this frozen Commonwealth up like in Turkmenistan so we could get warm.

    Maybe you could jump in it? Heck, like some of the folks here, I’d help buy you a ticket to the subject of this fine article… What say you?

  190. Caveman Says:

    I’m also in the “jury’s still out” camp on this debate.
    Isn’t it a question of conservation vs. preservation?
    I see it as a pace issue, and believe that there is an achievable equilibrium between human advancement and environmental sustainability. But how do we know when too much is too much too fast? We all depend on/use resources found on the earth and those resources are finite. Where time is infinite. How long do earth dwellers plan on being around?(hopefully for a very long time) So I’m okay with slowing my roll, taking a look around, and trying to keep my efficiency of advancement in check. So the GW debate I think is a healthy process in trying to find our environmental, ethical, and evolutional equilibrium’s. I think the fear comes from the exponential rate at which we as humans have been advancing. Can nature keep up? Also fear comes from greed or the unwillingness to share. Why should I share? What are your intensions with my share? Whats your motive to wanting or not wanting to share. And share I mean resourses, knowledge, and kindness…..
    Peace!

  191. jim spriggs Says:

    After reading all of the above i have come to the conclusion that you shoud get out more
    (get a life wankers)

  192. Aussie Observer Says:

    Metis Warrior Says: “Now pack up tomorrow and jump on that “stupid American” invention called the airplane (the thing that flies through the skies like a bird, but it is not).”

    There has always been controversy about who invented the first airplane.My research comes up with a British person named Percy Pilcher.He designed and built the first plane,and it was designed as a tri-plane.It was invented 4 years before the Wright brothers invented theirs.

    Yanks try to tell us they invented everything.
    One thing they are good at is bullshit! As for all the BS regarding Man being responsible for global warming, utter nonsense! The middle ages was far warmer that it is today, no coal burning Electristy stations around then. Plus check out the following;

    Co2 is one of a host of greenhouse gases that add to global temperatures with Co2 being the least problematic and the least plentiful in the total mix of atmospheric gases, Methane is the biggest offender along with H2O vapour, most of which we scientists call clouds, without which we would all freeze to death. We actually need warming to survive and is a perfectly natural part of the process. The green house effect is also a misnomer in respect of what people think it does. It does not trap heat. If it did we would all have boiled away millions of years ago. The real problem is pollution, not warming, the ice caps are not melting and the sea is not rising, so please, stop being complete dicks and borrow a brain to check out what I’m trying to tell you. Worry about toxic pollution. This whole Co2 scare is designed to take your mind of the real problems, which I’m bound to say appears to have worked. You don’t have a clue. when there is an abundance of Co2 the net result is bigger and better plants and that’s because it is plant food. The benefit to us is a richer oxygen environment and all round better health because we love oxygen and thrive when it is plentiful, which due to toxic pollution, is not all of the time.
    As for Co2 in high concentrations, humans are only in danger when CO2 reaches 50,000 parts per million. At present the concentration of atmospheric CO2 is about 385 ppm so we have a way to go before we all run around screaming, “we’re gonna die, we’re gonna die” with our hands in the air.
    Snap the fuck out of it and try and read something useful on the subject not put forward by the likes of Al Gore or Sir Maurice (Knight Carbonic) Strong the originator of the Carbon Tax and trading scam and a billionaire oil man.
    Hardly a true blue environmentalist but he will tell you he is.

  193. Jack Says:

    Sounds to me like David is real flaming gas hole him self. Hey David it is time for you to get off of the soap box. No one cares what you have to say. Ignorance and arrogance go hand in hand and it appears that your hands are full.

    The real irony is that the so called “Green” crusaders want to put a moratorium on the very gas responsible for making the world green.

    The single biggest threat to humanity that we will face in the 21st century will be the corporation not the weather. They are multi national and don’t mind that you blame America for your problems. Ultimately they seek to dissolve America anyways. The question is will you like the new world any better than the old world. I doubt it.

  194. max Says:

    That is unbelieveable, and plus whatever ur name is better than you, ur definitely a COD6 player.

  195. just looking Says:

    At first I was thinking that this fire could be extinguished by a large explosion, but not knowing the depth of the gas nor its source, I can see that that would not be a viable solution. It’s too bad that this fire can’t be put out long enough to cap the gas and then use it.

  196. Jack Says:

    It would be easy to extinguish the fire. Simply back fill the hole with dirt. What is surprising is that there hasn’t been any attempt to capture the gas. Look at the level of sophistication of one platform in the north sea and you start to wonder why this easy to get to gas has been allowed to just be burned off. Sure it made sense when it was believed to be a small pocket but after 37 years……? I think it is safe to say it is a waste of our natural resources. A big waste. I am sure that it is quite an ominous site to behold. I really doubt that the photos do it justice. Here in Stupid Ville, America where us stupid Americans live, we would of used our good old stupid technology to cap that stupid waste of gas a long time ago. But we are stupid like that.

  197. Meteor Says:

    David is unable to reply as his head is stuck up Gore’s largeass sniffing away. If Gore gets any bigger oops he already matches David’s description of Americans.

  198. STRENN (S.Africa) Says:

    Hey There Squarepants

    Your childish response has just validated my earlier statement. It’s probably just typical all American behaviour, to go on defense mode for the
    most trivial of reasons. Always ready to get into a fight without thinking of the repercussions
    (Ooops!!! sorry, you guys do think. you think of your only gains)Suppose therefore we have CIA & US Military presence in virtually every country.
    Seems to me that you have limited knowledge of your country ,co’s if there’s a nuke in my backyard. Guess what?? Its the US again they’ve raped and plundered from all the OPEC

  199. STRENN (S.Africa) Says:

    Hey there Sqarepants

    Oops!! I KLUPT the wrong whilst letting out a Fart.

    Wel soos ek het gese. OPEC are almost exhausted because the US efforts to strengthen the dollar had really taken the plunge for the worst( Your country is financially bankrupt)Well for that you owe thanks to the Bushpig.
    Hey Broer! Moenie worry nie.
    OBAMA sal al julle vokken MOEGOEMS van jou ekonomik depressi uit haal. WHY? BECAUSE HE A BLACK WHITEMAN with intellect as opposed to Mampaara Mr Bushpig whom always had shit on collar.
    Hey Meneer Square prick,hierdie plek is nie vir Mampaaras nie. As julle hier kom, Eish julle sal net opgevok word.

    Totsiens maat

  200. Buster Says:

    Looks like David has moved to S Africa!!!

  201. john Says:

    dear david after personaly reading this entire thread. i ask you to please read what you have written. you have been rude, disrespectful, inaccurate, inappropriate, and ignorant of all relivant facts you have placed your dogma of global climate change at the heart of religion. i highly suggest you go back look at all the evidence especially that revealed in the last ten years.

    ps. stren be care ful your racism is showing

  202. whatever Says:

    Poor Dave, maybe you all have hurt his little feelings and he has gone and thrown himself into the “Gates of Hell” seeing as how that would be a much better place to be than the United States. Did David say that our president is “non-white”? Are you kidding me? If the president is “non-white”, then he is also “non-black.” Isn’t the president HALF white and HALF black? Does one trump the other? Then again, has anyone ever thought that David just talks a good game and loves to stir up SH**??? As passionate as he may seem about his beliefs (or make beliefs), maybe he is just someone with no life who sits at a computer all day and has nothing better to do than to put nasty bugs in peoples’ ears. I would be careful if I were you David because your rhetoric is similar to those of terrorists and people like Lee Harvey Oswald, Timothy McVeigh, Terry Nichols, etc. But then again, the first step to getting help is realizing that you have this problem and then talking about it so that you can get help. That’s it….David has gone to get “help.”

  203. hindsight Says:

    I have a question. Why all Americans are lumped into one group. Last time I checked not everyone was a teabagging, conservative, racsist.

    Can someone answer that for me?

  204. Oscelot Says:

    hindsight,
    Your premise is amusing. A close cousin to “when did you stop beating your wife?”. Racism is wrong by most people’s standards. Lumping “conservative” and “teabagging” with racism is either irresponsible or with ill intent.

  205. Jean-Marie Ghekiere Says:

    wil iemand dit stoppen, denk aan de opwarming van de aarde?????

  206. silent majority Says:

    Translation of post #205:
    Does anybody wish to stop this, refer to the warming of the Earth?????

  207. silent majority Says:

    Jean-Marie:
    Haar niet waard. Betere branden van de toxische gassen dan te laten ontsnappen aan in de atmosfeer. Het is te klein is om met bother, er is geen winst.

  208. hindsight Says:

    Well, Oscelot if you had read any of Davids’ posts you’d realize what I was referring to. So next time you try to insult someone, make sure you know what your talking about. Thanks.

  209. Oscelot Says:

    David’s posts are not worthy of mention nor consideration.

  210. hindsight Says:

    It’s okay, Oscelot. Your posts are right up there with his.

  211. Jo Africa Says:

    What is wrong with you people?! You don’t know each other yet you have no problem making rude comments, questioning each other beliefs and cursing each other. The commenst was supposed to be about The Door To Hell! WTF is wrong with you Americans?

  212. sivraj Says:

    You seem to be missing the point about the Darvaza flaming well?? It can be and should be sealed and put out this could be achieved by building a huge dome over it . When all the oxogen is used up and the flames put out the gas could then be used for many things.
    In Canada they extract oil from bitumen soaked sand which is found in great quantities ,mostly deep underground, a very big opperation so we should be able to do something we the flaming hole??

  213. bebo Says:

    I’m not sure, Jo Africa. What’s wrong with you Africans?

  214. Jo Africa Says:

    Sorry if I offended you bebo, that was not my intention. but I think you get the point I was trying to make. I think this convo has gotten completely out of hand, that’s all.

  215. Jack Says:

    Turkmenistan does not have the market cornered on flaming gas holes. The internet is full of them.

  216. Brian Says:

    Thanks for that map, it really helps to get ones bearings.

  217. tj Says:

    goddddd! where’s david ! seriously ! 😀

  218. Jo Africa Says:

    Bored tj?

  219. tj Says:

    lol :)
    can you imagine how bored i must be!!!

  220. Jo Africa Says:

    LOL, I can just imagine :)

  221. tj Says:

    but to be honest , we (brits) should be called teabaggers.. we do drink a lot of tea! i feel left out… did he literally mean people drinking tea or was it a metaphor for something else!..?

  222. Jo Africa Says:

    I’m too scared to answer, he might start bad mouthing South Africans as well….

  223. tj Says:

    lol .. we have heard it all 😀 bring it on David ( throwing in the bait ..is he catching ?)

  224. Jo Africa Says:

    Maybe he’s founds some other site and is torturing some other poor people. HURRAY!!!!

  225. silentymajorit Says:

    tj: Are you seriously asking what the term “Teabagger” means that David was referring to? It’s a political metaphore that describes the grass roots coalition that spontaneously sprung up this past summer in protest to the Marxists who have been infiltrating our government. There seems to also be another definition which refers to a perverted sexual act associated with a group of social deviants.
    No drinking of tea involved!

  226. Tj Says:

    Yikes that’s harsh! Well we can finally say that atleast one person learnt something because of mister David ! 😀 thanks for educating me :-) but seriously ..sexual??? I can’t imagine what would teabagging be a methaphor for …

  227. Jo Africa Says:

    LOL! I wouldn’t want to find out!

  228. Jo Africa Says:

    You’re up early Tj…..

  229. tj Says:

    Early ?Not really.. unless you think 12 ‘o clock in the afternoon is early…. 😀 i wish it was though 😀

  230. Jo Africa Says:

    Oh, I was looking at the time next to the date here :) Here it is 14:00 and almost time to go home. Just two more hours to go.

  231. Jack Says:

    No drinking of tea involved?

    If one chose to drink tea whilst tea bagging their partner they very well could I suppose so it wouldn’t be expressly forbidden. Could prove to be painful should your “tea bags” end up in scalding hot water. ouch! But chances are tea is not what these folks are toting. More likely a Meth Amphetamine/Viagra blend.

  232. silentymajority Says:

    Caveman, are you still monitoring? Just read your comment #190. Interesting perspective.

  233. Dee Dee Says:

    My question is, couldn’t they put gigantic fan blades over it and use it like a gigantic windmill? Call me stupid, but it seems like it might keep something turning for a long long time and use it for free electricity.

  234. silentmajority Says:

    Dee Dee:
    It’s not worth the investment. There’s no demand for electricity in the middle of a desert. Cost to build, manufacture and deliver it to the nearest populated area is way to high compared to ROI. (return on investment) The area is in the midst of hostile countrys. On a global scale, the adverse effect this burning pit has on the enviornment is barely negligible. The best thing to do with this hole is just what it’s doing now. Burning the toxic gasses so they don’t escape into the atmosphere.

  235. David Says:

    My dear Americans: this country has pissed of this planet, and any good that is (was) here has been bypassed by the bad it generated. It is such a disappointment to look around and see the people that have no consideration to anything non-American, anything different, anything that can ring the bell of change. The change that may mean that America is no longer what it was, and it is happening BECAUSE IT WAS WHAT IT WAS: selfish, ignorant, individualistic, hypocritical. Did I say stupid? Well, you don’t like this word, uh? :))) OK, let us skip it this time. But do you agree with other ones?

  236. Jack Says:

    Hey every body look David’s back. Yea David your back. It just hasn’t been the same here with out your special brand of sunshine to warm the place. Just wanted to be the first to say welcome back. Now fuck off.:)

  237. Jo Africa Says:

    LMAO!!! Yes, it hasn’t been the same without him, it’s been better!

  238. David Says:

    so many funny americans… so many of you trying to pretend that without me there is no problem in your beautiful country))) what a funny country)))

  239. Jo Africa Says:

    you are whack David! without you (and people like you) America will definitely have less problems!

  240. David Says:

    oh sure, and the debt will reduce, and your soldiers come back home)))) you are reduculus, nigga

  241. Jo Africa Says:

    Just for info asshole – I’m not American and I’m a white woman dipshit! Oh, and your spelling sucks! go back to school

  242. David Says:

    so why do you then argue?, Jo

  243. Jo Africa Says:

    No argument – I don’t argue with asses

  244. Buster Says:

    H e e e e e’s b a a a a a c k!!!!

  245. silentmajority Says:

    David: I believe everybody on this thread is aware of what it is you dislike about America. So, I would like to ask you if you could take a little time and put your linguistic skills to work in a bit more positive direction and explain exactly what type of Socio-Economic system you would rather see America transform into. I’m asking that you put aside bashing others’ ideologies, and name calling for a while and just explain your ideal vision of America to us. No need to explain how it should be done, or why it wouldn’t work or even to get into the whole Left / Right philosophy. Please just explain to us what your America would look like if you could write the plan and everybody agreed to it.

    I think you might be pleasantly surprised how many people would agree with some or maybe a lot of your ideas. It is my opinion that almost everybody would agree that we need to make changes in our society. But, what changes? How should America be governed and who should decide who will govern us? Should we be a sovereign nation or should we submit to a world governing body? Is personal liberty important or should we be more strictly controlled in our freedoms? Who will own the property, individuals or the governing authority? Should business and industry be privately owned or government owned and controlled? How could corruption and greed be controlled? Should your America have its own military or would we be subject to an international policing body?

    There are so many things that could be discussed in a respectful dialogue without reverting to personal attacks and name calling.

    Just wondering if we could all try this approach for a while and see what interesting thoughts could be debated as opposed to the juvenile dialogues that have been so dominant lately.

    Does anybody else agree?

  246. Jack Says:

    Oh David, there is so much in this world that you are oblivious to. You pawn off on America the things that belong to the globalists, the corporatist aka fascists. They have been busy little bees here in this last decade. They are rooted in deep here in America as well as the European countries like England and Germany. Their technicals reach into the crown countries like Canada, Australia and New Zealand as well. See their plan is to have one central bank by the end of this year with one world currency. So to accomplish this Herculean feet they needed to do several things. First and for most they needed to bring the American standard of living down so they introduced NAFTA and there went our manufacturing base next they needed to over extend us with debt so they declared war on Iraq. There is more to that but this is a short primer. Then they needed to send the banking system into a tail spin so they created the so called housing bubble that killed the economy and wiped out many banks, that where gobbled up by a few big ones making the next moves easier by consolidating. The banker bail outs where nothing but pay off cash for those banks that where deemed safe to bail. Then came the removal as the worlds reserve currency and now we are in the debasing part of the plan where they bring the worth of the dollar down and bring other currencies up in value and once they reach a point that has been deemed acceptable to the bankers they introduce the new world currency and exchange program. The Euro was introduced as a means to stabilize Europe during this whole process as it is a gold based currency it would have more stability. Most of Americas assets are being held in Chinese banks until this is all over. Make no mistake about it. What we are seeing today, what you are blaming on America, is a new kind of warfare that’s never been seen before. It is being wagged secretly against the whole world and those wagging it make no claims of any nationality for nationality is what they despise along with property ownership, individual rights and what has been called the American way of life. So David don’t worry as an American citizen your self you will soon get to see first hand what a great country you used to live in.

  247. Darvaza Door to Hell Says:

    This is not the same David. It’s easy to choose any name you want when commenting on blog posts. I could choose to be David as well. Real David must have moved on. Maybe he got deported back to Somalia and doesn’t have internet access anymore. Who knows…

  248. Jack Says:

    Oh well

  249. Ravi Says:

    Hello All,
    I’m South African and a proud one to but seriously guys, this thread is here to comment on the burning pit, i was enjoying the comments until David started talking and bringing down others, so not cool!!! so lets keep to the topic at hand “door to hell”
    personally i feel, this pit should be covered, if we can build sky crappers and stuff like that, surely we can put out this fire…..its scary, dont you think so.
    Cheers for now.

  250. Jo Africa Says:

    Hey Ravi, great to have a fellow South African’s view. I also said that this thread is becoming a bit crazy.
    My feeling on this is that thepit should be left for the gas to burn – but then again, does that not have an affect on the ozone layer?

  251. opioniated Says:

    better to be thought of a fool, than to open one’s mouth and remove all doubt__

  252. Ravi Says:

    Hi Jo,
    Pleasure meeting a fellow African, i’m Asian by the way and from from Durban and you…. not being optimistic or anything like that, the pit has being burning for 37 years straight, dont you think thats a long time for a fire to be burning, although it MAY not be causing any harm to the enviroment or any self being, i still feel that it should be put off, like any other fire we have.

  253. Jo Africa Says:

    Hey Ravi

    I’m from Jozi, coming down your way in a few days on holiday! Yay! I don’t think that the fire would still be burning if all the gas was gone and I feel that it’s safer to let all the gas burn up than to let it escape into the air. The fire is not doing anyone/thing any harm at the moment.

  254. Ravi Says:

    come to think of it further, you may have a point there Jo, only if its not doing anyone any harm or distroying the earths atmosphere in slow strides.
    Cool, you coming down to Durbz and i’m up in JHB in two weeks on business, its rather hot down here, suggest you dress cool and you must visit the beach, another cool place to hang out with your family is Ushaka Marine, if you’ve not being there, take a dive there and spend the day, you wont regret it, trust me…hope you enjoy your stay in our beautiful Durban…

  255. Jo Africa Says:

    Thanks Ravi. We’re staying in Uvongo and the plan is to go to Ushaka for a day. Thanks for the tip on the weather. And you better pack your raincoat – we’ve been having LOADS of rain! Enjoy

  256. Randall-EL Says:

    Ah damnit. I found this thread too late. I wanted to put my say in with the first David. Oh well. Maybe I’ll find some other pile of poop to step in on the internet.

  257. Randall-EL Says:

    As for the burning gas crater. I think if it was such a big issue for the environment they’d have done something about it already. It’s been nearly 40 years. I guess it’ll just be like Chernobyl. Nothing we can do now. Too late.

  258. GE Says:

    This can’t be filled or stopped until the gas depletes. Does anyone know if there are wells nearby tapping this resource? It only makes sense that it is but no note on that in this thread. As a geologist I understand the reasons it was ignited and what it would take to extinquish.

    This amount of gas, while it is a lot, is still so minor in the global scale of thisngs that it should not effect our environment. It just seems a great waste. Natural gas burns very cleanly releasing Water vapor and carbon dioxide. The sulfur content while deadly in sulfur dioxide gas form is harmless once incinerated.

    The really interesting aspect here is the years this has been burning without natural depletion.
    There are underground fires that have burnt for many years with the gases exhausting to the atmosphere but almost always coal seams.
    While this seems like a lot of gas and it is, just the US burns in excess of 20 Trillion Cubic feet of natural gas per year, if I recall correctly.

    Also On the Stepps of Russia there are hundreds perhaps over a thousand wells burning and have been for many years degassing coal beds. There is no cost effective way to gather and market the gas so it is flared off. I would make an educated guess that that quantity exceeds by a magnitude the gas burnig in the doorway to hell.
    As Dave Garroway always closed – Peace.

  259. Randall Says:

    I tried reading all 250+ comments and just got so sick of the redundancy.
    David-try learning about the earth from 13B years ago until today. Start with the methane gas emanting from what is now Siberia.
    Ally, Bless You. You may have given up trying to educate David and his followers but, from a male, from Texas, who worked his way through undergratuate, graduate and law school working in the oil fields, I only wish I could have had David with me for one Summer.
    The Earth cleans herself, given a reasonable break, and has done so for more than a few years.
    Peace and health to all…..rmm

  260. Harrison Says:

    Dave…idiosyncratic eccentricities are the promulgators of triturable obfuscation. Understand?

  261. Harrison believer Says:

    no crap

  262. josh Says:

    you couldn’t suffocate this kind of fire like some of you have suggested because it is a gas fire and it does not need the oxygen to burn, all it requires is the gas that is being vented which is likely trapped methane under the earths surface, and also if you did manage to extinguish the fire then the gasses would still be venting and it would do a lot more damage to the environment than what it is doing currently…

  263. F. J. McBride Says:

    WHERE IS RED ADAIR WHEN YOU NEED HIM?

  264. steve Says:

    What that well burns in a year,I could imagine California alone uses in one hour,let alone the entire country!!!!

  265. batman Says:

    all the people taking this as an opportunity to whine about al gore are really freakin’ weird

  266. Ryan Says:

    I really truly cannot believe how stupid people can be. David is this person. i dont care what you have to say about teabagistan or global warming, or the bible, or illiterate deuschebags. okay? just please shut the fuck up. i am sick of tired of listening to jackass’s that have nothing better to do then to sit at a computer and gaybash everyone. just please david, stop talking for all of our sakes, if your going to debate with someone, then do it in person. at least then they have the option of giving you a broken nose.

    david, if you have anything else to say, either put some intelligence into it, or talk about the burning hole in the ground, otherwise just go hang yourself in your mothers basement. the world could be rid of people like you.

  267. Won Says:

    The pit burning methane. Methane is a very potent greenhouse gas and also extremely deadly. So most likely, stopping the fire is probably a bad idea in terms of being eco-friendly since methane actually burns very cleanly.

    The only way they would get away with stopping the fire without causing additional damage is to cap the site to prevent methane from escaping, or figure out a way to extract and collect the methane before it is released into the atmosphere.

    And this is what I have to say to the peanut gallery’s ideas that a methane or any gas does not need oxygen to burn, you all are idiots. Take basic high school science and you will know for anything to burn you will need an oxidizing agent.

    Some fuels contain their own oxygen (ie, gunpowder, C4, rocket fuel) meanwhile pure gases such as methane, natural gas, propane, butane or whatever all require external oxygen.

  268. XYZ Says:

    David! I don’t know what to say. After reading your previous comments, i strongly disagree. But who wants to hear about your problems? Really, please, I’m sorry for you, best of luck?<3

  269. Kathy Says:

    Unbelievable! The burning hole in the ground and David. Truly scary to feel the depth of his unhappiness, despair and misery.

  270. andy Says:

    I always love how people will use any topic to pontificate their own precious point of view, from the left or right. Turkmenistan isn’t the only place one can find a flaming gas hole.

  271. Jessica Says:

    Wow, I am amazed at the stupidity of this David character.. He is basing all his judgements on a few people. Not every American is the same.. that is why it is called the “mixing pot” Unfortunatly, we still allowed the idiots in who just want to live off others and cause turmoil from within. If you have such a big problem with this country, then leave.. plain and simple. To say a country as a whole is stupid, is just plain ridiculous.

  272. ariel Says:

    this is ridiculous. why did a page about darvaza get hijacked by a bunch of self-important american twats and internet trolls?

  273. alex Says:

    its a bit upsetting that david has left tbh. but at least this thread tells you something, if your not an american (like myself) and you have seen some of the comments on here then at least your at ease knowing that not all of americans are stupid, it seems that actually the majority are not, unfortunatly the ones that really do think they are so intelligent “david” are not.
    but ye the craters pretty cool, i think its fine to be burning gives turkmenistan something good other than borats interpretation. wouldnt mind a visit myself.
    😀

  274. Mark 8967 Says:

    This hole is a big waste of energy that should be used to generate power, instead of just burning, and doing nothing but polluting the air & wasting oxygen. what a waste.
    Also, Americans are #1, we rule the world, & all america haters are just jealous our gigantic global (BleeeeeeP).

  275. Chin May ( India) Says:

    Like unsupervised children, we have triggerred a fire and now we donot know what to do. Methane being lighter than air, normally escapes upward and is oxidised. , adding more CO2 to the cycle . Now it is happening at surface level. It’s a big challenge to our technicians. Hope somebody will come up with a probable solution. Unless there is some profit, no proposal will ever be tried.

  276. Bob Says:

    its far to amazing to get rid of…Let it be…its like an 8th wonder of ther world

  277. chory anggi Says:

    wow……………..amazing!!!!!!kaya’ api yang tak pernah padam..disana pasti panas bwged yach

  278. Papempo Says:

    Can’t they build a simple steam reactor over it! I mean, just run the pipes over the fire, fill with water, put a generator at the end!

    boom – Energy!

  279. mstamler Says:

    Seems to me that the heat can be used to produce elecricity. I mean GIGAWATTS of electricity. No one seems to give a crap about the lost energy. We use geothermal energy to generate electricity, hot water and the like, it would be a boon to the people of Turkmenistan who I’m sure could use it.

  280. JEN Says:

    YOUR CORRECT MSTAMIER BUT WE’VE KNOWN THAT NO ONE ELSE LIKE TO COME CLOSE AT THAT CRATER EXCEPT WHEN SOMEONE WOULD LIKE TO BUILD A HOT SPRING ON THAT CRATER CUZ WE’VE KNOWN THAT THE GAS THAT CRATER WAS SO DANGER

  281. Conor Says:

    well that was amusing to read through so I want to put my views so i may get abuse too, I feel left out. The whole world (not just americans although they do play a huge part)needs to work on being more efficient with their fuel consumption. But that crater is pretty cool I must admit 😀

  282. Linda Says:

    So, Al, you still throwing matches in craters?

    Being a capitalistic, money-grubbing American, I think the Turkmenistan government should make this a national park and charge admission. Make it something like the Yellowstone of Turkmenistan. Sell t-shirts, mugs, mouse pads.

    If more countries thought this way, they’d have more money of their own–thus alleviating the need for every country that ends up in need of food, water, medicine, and other aid won’t come running to the United States–you know, this country full of rude, illiterate, wealthy capitalists who gladly open their wallets to the Red Cross and other aid agencies around the globe when a tsunami, fire, earthquake, terrorist attack, typhoon, etc occurs.

  283. Ravi Says:

    1 Proudly South African with 1 goal in his mind adds to this topic which is gone way beyond controll and like every other South Africa says ” TAKE A BREAK, HAVE A KITT KAT”
    now chill peeps, were’s the love amongst us.

  284. Jo Africa Says:

    Hiya (fellow South African) Ravi
    Long time no chat. How’s Durbs treating you? I agree with you – these Americans need to just chill and enjoy this phenomenon instead of running up their blood pressure with people they will never meet. Enjoying my Kit Kat now :)

  285. Ravi Says:

    Heya Jo my friend, i’m well thanks, how about you.
    Durban is lekka, not to cold, hmmmm, a little breezy but nothing we cant handle……did you enjoy your trip to Durbs, did you visit Ushaka like i suggested?
    you right there Joe, why these guys working up a storm for no apparent reason, not like its going to do any good, its only HOT AIR LIKE THE BURNING HOLE…..LOL……….Got myself a double dose of Kit Katt, sitting back and enjoying the giggle with these guys…..LOL
    Take Care….
    PROUDLY SOUTH AFRICA WERE LIVING LIFE 1 GOAL AT A TIME AND MAKING A DIFFERENCE……

  286. Jo Africa Says:

    The only thing I can complain is the cold! it’s freezing here in Jozi (must be because it’s winter LOL). The vacay was nice – my daughter was 14 months at the time and had a blast. Couldn’t visit Ushaka but will definitely next time.
    I see you are still into the world cup feva – Awesome!
    Keep well, chat again soon

  287. Ravi Says:

    cool Jo, will chat soon…..

    hey a thought just came to mind, maybe some countries can use the burning hole to their advantage and make a death centence for the bad guys, can be call –
    HOLE OF DEATH…….lol……only a suggestion.

  288. mai Says:

    it is real

  289. Ravi Says:

    so is Mcdonalds

  290. chaca Says:

    wowh…its so amazing
    so interest,but it make me afraid about kiamat has come!!

    but,we have to know that kiamat will come one day.

  291. Ravi Says:

    Hi Chaca,

    how are you doing, if you dont mind me asking, what is Kiamat?

  292. ice_187 Says:

    For Ravi…

    Kiamat also spelt Qiyamat or Qiyamah…is the Arabic word & the Islamic belief of, well, literally the end of days lol Doomsday/Judgement Day & all that..quite ominous Chacha…I have to say tho Chacha, we all know, or most of us believe in one way or another that Judgment Day will come etc. But this, defo isn’t, so dont be afraid lol…I understand were your comin from but this isnt even a “Sign of Qiyamat” lol…Great, i’ve managed to turn this in 2a religious thing, roll on the Islamaphobe/religiousphobe (i made dat 1 up, dnt knw the proper word lol) comments.

    I have 2 say tho, still cant believe ppl actually think there’s, “no such thing as global warming” hahaha hilarious. Wen water levels rise & ur citys under it, then maybe the penny’ll drop lol…Maybe all these International Summits & Meetings on the whole matter is an “International Conspiracy” headed by America bcoz all conspiracies have 2 be headed by or involve America in 1 way or anotha, wouldnt be a conspiracy if it wasnt ryt? lol…defo cant be a gud thing 4 da enviroment but dang if aint pretty lol.

    Hope the 1st part helped Ravi & ithers 😀

  293. Athos Says:

    Hi, all.
    Bing bring us a new picture every day. I love this, because it challenges our knowledge about a lot of different sites on earth. Today was “The Hell’s Gate”, and searching for a map, I stumbled with this thread.
    I want to take the John’s post, January 2,2010, 11:18pm. I agree with him. Nevertheless, when I saw the crater and that waste of gas, my first thinking was the old wisdom “If you can’t win then join to enemy”. It’s obvious that it’s a good source for Turkmenian tourism industry, and there is no willing to cover this hole. Then the solution is to drill a lot of wells to exploit the gas. I think the cost vs earns goes to better numbers when augments the number of wells. Furthermore, it’s likely the great gas cavern to be near the surface, and the cost of drilling be low. The next issue is the distance to energy demanding population regions. How to transport the energy? Like gas or as electricity? I want to tell you the experience in our country, Chile. We are taking advantage from the natural gas. It’s transported liquified by vessels from abroad, and through pipes from neighbour country (this last way is no longer, because the neighbour doesn’t sell gas any more, and they are asking for us to sell them). Then re-gasified in coast facilities. Then transported by high pressure gas pipe through long distences to combined cycle power plants. I don’t see problems, only the will to do it.
    Peace, Athos.

  294. Bobby Grogan Says:

    THIS IS SO COOL I WANNA VISIT IT ONE DAY WHO CAN GIVE ME DIRECTIONS

  295. Cinds Says:

    Hiya, thanks everyone for an enjoyable blog, I stumbled upon this because I was looking at…. heck I can’t even remember.
    If you’ll all bare with me I would love to get just 1 minute of fame on this blog whilst you read what I have to say – please note – this is just my opinion, no generalisations intended and no insults intended either – plus it’s been close to a month and wuold love to know what you’re all up to these days! :)
    First of all I don’t live in Turkmenistan so I think the government there should decide what to do with the ‘burning hole’ certainly not me who lives halfway around the world and couldn’t possibly make that decision happen anyway because I am not President/Prime Minister/Prince(please do pardon my ignorance) of the above mentioned country. But I do love some of the ideas that have come up – turning it into something that can help the locals and their economy is probably the best one – after all we all need a little help in life.
    I am not a smart person but I am not stupid either, I believe everyone has a right to an opinion, right or wrong as it may be, it is still there opinion. So I thank everyone for voicing theirs, it’s great that you have the right to do so, not everybody on this planet does. Though I may not agree with your opinions I do value them and I don’t think anyone should be ridiculed for discussing theirs in public.
    Secondly, I would love to visit Turkmenistan one day as this ‘hole’ seems like a fascinating semi-natural wonder and, yes, I would pay a fee as long as it wasn’t outrageous.
    Thirdly, i feel like I know you all so well, and even though it’s a pity that the arguments get a little heated, aren’t we lucky to live in places that allow us access to the internet as well as access to the wonderful variety of people that are on it too. I don’t have anything bad to say about any of you because you all have your own lives to lead and I think it’s great that you want and choose to contribute to these sorts of conversations, maybe without the bitterness though would be good. I don’t like to generalise, but some countries are a little behind the eight ball when it comes to global warming, whether it exists or not, isn’t it just a good thing to look after our home – after all we all belong to the same one and there aren’t too many within hopping distance if you know what I mean. We don’t have to agree in order to make a change for the better, and no I’m not some hippy living in a commune(just in case you were starting to generalise) :). I’m studying full time towards a Bachelors degree, I work when I can (I have a back injury which prevents this sometimes) I pay my taxes, I finished high school… eventually and I also have a diploma. But I’m not a rocket scientist either. What else should I tell you about myself…. nothing, cos that would be slightly boring, what I’m trying to get at is, I don’t know how power plants work, I don’t really want to but I don’t feel this makes me ignorant. i just know those things are better left to the people who know what they’re doing and want to know about power plants. I’m content with doing that as most of us should be. I want to make the world a better place, so I don’t judge, I don’t hate, I don’t ridicule, I don’t use religion to hide behind for all my failings, but I don’t think poorly of those who do (and no, I’m not saying that that is all religion is good for). Plus I recycle, isn’t that what it’s all about people! Oh no wait, it’s not, this website was just about places to travel, sorry, I’ve been sucked in by it all too. Hopefully though, I have some of you agreeing with me, I have some of you at least thinking about agreeing with me, and I’ve done it all without any scientific knowledge and without any anger or rude remarks. We can voice our opinions whilst disagreeing with each other, and we can save the planet, even if it’s just one blog at a time.
    Goodnight everyone, sweet dreams from the Land Down Under. Wishing everyone a very early Merry Xmas, hope all your wishes and dreams come true and your family is safe with you. Cheers.
    P.S. Did I have the longest blog in the end or does that still belong to david? 😉

  296. Jay Johnsen Says:

    Hey!That is the best and most noble of things to say! I feel like gold right now. How marvelous.

  297. saeedeh Says:

    ((Turkmenistan is located in the Middle East (Central Asia) and is surrounded by countries such as Afghanistan or Iran, which are known for frequent terrorist attacks, war, kidnapping and other crime against tourists))
    hello guys I’m from Iran.we r not terrorists we don’t kidnap anyone, i call one terrorist who kills thousands of people in wars make them homeless.I don’t have problems with Americans Africans Russians …but I’m against of all of the governments including my own country’s government too. although we come from different places and we may not be from the same race ,but these are ghastly labels and classifications that politicians inflict upon us to divide us and to make brothers seem as strangers and strangers as brothers.at present we have been divided in to morsels they can easily devour.devision.they have narrowed the battlefield to such narrow proportions.they force us fight each other,we may be injured or even die ,but if we win the credit and power is for them SO better not to trust them.thanks

  298. Lau Says:

    This unbelievable, nothing to say other than almost infinite natural gas is really needfully in our life.

  299. Henry Says:

    I’ve been to the crater and its amazing, I also know several people that work in TM and regularly visit. On a global scale the impact of the burning gas is negligible. The crater went out of it’s own accord in the 80’s but someone lobbed a grenade in to start it again, partly because of the gas and the nearby ‘town’ of Darvaza. The towns been destroyed now at the will of the late Turkmenbashi, bulldozed into the sand…..

  300. Henry Says:

    “Seems to me that the heat can be used to produce elecricity. I mean GIGAWATTS of electricity. No one seems to give a crap about the lost energy. We use geothermal energy to generate electricity, hot water and the like, it would be a boon to the people of Turkmenistan who I’m sure could use it.”

    that’s hilarious! why would the people of TM bother, one thing they dont lack is energy, domestic gas and electrcity are free and petrol is 1 us cent a litre!

  301. Lau Says:

    I think its not practical as someone said before, without knowing the how long the fire last long to build some theoretical or practical generators.

  302. Anders Nygård Says:

    Filling the hole? morons, it has been burning in 37years. Arent you awerd of how much mass that would be needed! And making a lock on it would be a catastofe. Dangerouse gass wold be leacking out everywere.

  303. Alex Says:

    I know I’m over a year late but I’ve read through every blog and “David” is in fact THEE dick of modern society.

  304. visn Says:

    its not a big deal i noticed people are say the heat is contributing to global warming an so we should cap it.. thats the worst idea ever the way i see it global worming only been a problem or(accumilating)for like 20 years, when industrials things sped up its been burning for 37 years there for there no relation and besides putting out the fire would be dangerous and worse for the evironment. but i do agree with taking the gas for use

  305. Burt Says:

    Hello everyone…this is fascinating…I wonder how much this fire has contributed to CO2 over the last 30+ yrs…lol..lol anyway there was a post by jack not to far back and it’s great…I’m gonna repost it only because it seems logical….a bit off subject but on target…

    There is so much in this world that most are oblivious to. You pawn off on

    America the things that belong to the globalists, the corporatist aka

    fascists. They have been busy little bees here in this last decade. They are

    rooted in deep here in America as well as the European countries like England

    and Germany. Their technicals reach into the crown countries like Canada,

    Australia and New Zealand as well. See their plan is to have one central bank

    by the end of this year with one world currency. So to accomplish this

    Herculean feet they needed to do several things. First and for most they

    needed to bring the American standard of living down so they introduced NAFTA

    and there went our manufacturing base next they needed to over extend us with

    debt so they declared war on Iraq. There is more to that but this is a short

    primer. Then they needed to send the banking system into a tail spin so they

    created the so called housing bubble that killed the economy and wiped out

    many banks, that where gobbled up by a few big ones making the next moves

    easier by consolidating. The banker bail outs where nothing but pay off cash

    for those banks that where deemed safe to bail. Then came the removal as the

    worlds reserve currency and now we are in the debasing part of the plan where

    they bring the worth of the dollar down and bring other currencies up in value

    and once they reach a point that has been deemed acceptable to the bankers

    they introduce the new world currency and exchange program. The Euro was

    introduced as a means to stabilize Europe during this whole process as it is a

    gold based currency it would have more stability. Most of Americas assets are

    being held in Chinese banks until this is all over. Make no mistake about it.

    What we are seeing today, what you are blaming on America, is a new kind of

    warfare that’s never been seen before. It is being wagged secretly against the

    whole world and those wagging it make no claims of any nationality for

    nationality is what they despise along with property ownership, individual

    rights and what has been called the American way of life. So David don’t worry

    as an American citizen your self you will soon get to see first hand what a

    great country you used to live in.

  306. Random Says:

    So wait, people are actually bemoaning how this has impacted the LOLbalwarming? I mean this came right after LOL DANGEROUS AND TOXIC CHEMICALS PEOPLE FEARED WOULD SEEP UP AND HURT BYSTANDERS.

    Screw you lolbal warming.

  307. James Says:

    4 dacades of CO & CO2, Here’s your Global Warming. Slant drill, take the pressure off. Fill the hole!

  308. Tiffany Says:

    I think David is a cover-up terrorist douche bag who wears floods and likes anal intercourse who needs to be deported immediately. Hooah!

  309. Kevin Says:

    Dear David

    As a Veteran who has deployed to combat zones and has lost the proper and right use of my right leg and my ability to keep myself firmly in reality due to a severe case of PTSD, from watching according to you, no good racist teabagers’ and stupid Americans who have lost their lives just so you can have the right to insult them, their sacrifice and urinate on the Very freedoms you enjoy. You have stated that the American people are dumb, well this maybe true now let me illuminate to you why I somewhat agree with that statement.

    After the 60s people like you found that they could not change America by being a bunch of pot smoking degenerate communists. What people like you did do was started getting educations and became teachers and politicians, when this happened people like you used those positions to push your un-patriotic leftist BS down our throats. People like you lowered the Education standard effectively dumbing (yes I know that’s not a word) Down the American people.

    Now for some hard science that you might understand, you’re an ass!

    Your first post was unintelligent right from the start, your second post you admitted to not being able to understand David’s reply to you, that was very clear until your 3rd post when it seemed that you decided to take another side just to have an argument. But the truth here is that you are one of those people that would as soon as spit on a soldier for protecting your right to be hateful of your own country.

    It is because of people like you that we are in the mess we are in. it is not about Bush or Obama, it is the Agenda that they push.

    See I am a conservative in all things. I hunt but I hunt responsibly I will take a sick or lame animal out of respect for the other animals in the forests even if I have to use my hunting tag to do so. Now if people like myself did not do this then there would be sickness beyond our control.

    I personally do not believe that global warming is caused by man, but that does not mean that I think we should trash our planet. The Earth has been around for billions of years and for a good majority or the time Earth has been here there has been life. The Earth had in its past super volcanoes that produced more carbon in an hour than we could in 100 years. Think about the middle ages no cars, but there were fires burning in every little corner of a town or village and those places had really bad smog issues because of it one would think that that would have been cause for warming or cooling by today’s standard, but the truth of it is that the Earth goes Through stages and we as mankind do not know enough to say one way or another that we caused it. There are scientific facts that prove this, but I do not expect you to educate yourself after all your just a dumb American.

    I’m not just if for a buck ill fly the plane myself.

  310. DavidIsAcockSuckingFag Says:

    Kinda funny to see people arguing with some pseudo intellectual jackass who started trolling years ago. Its obvious he should put his mind to better endeavors.

  311. James Says:

    The Russkies have one hell of a lot to answer for that’s for sure.. If they aren’t nuking Kazakhstanis or entire islands in the arctic circle, or using parts of the pacific as dumping grounds for ageing nuclear subs and ships, they are busy digging through to the earths core in search of diamonds or creating devilish sights like this wasting the earths natural gas resources. What a set of cunts..

  312. Henry Says:

    Well James, another startlingly ill-informed world view. Have you ever been to TM or KZ, have you met any the ‘Ruskies’ that live in Dervaza or Semeypatalinsk?

    The ‘Russkies’ are NOT the Soviet Union, the USSR ended a long time ago. The Russian people are as good as any others on the planet and have had to endure a lot more hardship than most, part of the reason why they are all double-hard. As you are so righteous about their ‘devilish’ ways I guess you live in Bhutan. If you don’t then have a think about what YOUR country has done before you go condemning an entire population as ‘a set of c*nts’.

  313. candacimo Says:

    hey guys. this is CRAZY!!

  314. candacimo Says:

    im in science(:

  315. candacimo Says:

    woot. lets party(:

  316. candacimo Says:

    aattt my house(:

  317. candacimo Says:

    you guys wwish.. it will never happen, for geeks!!!

  318. candacimo Says:

    moooo(:

  319. candacimo Says:

    heres a shoutout to my friens beside me(: lauren risner, i love you… lauren furr….. YOUR GAY! jk jk. i love you too. and jenny harden(:

  320. candacimo Says:

    hardens a funny last name.. baby why dont you harden that;p

  321. chimmychonga Says:

    you need to be serious about this stuff. the world can die, from it..

  322. candacimo Says:

    shuddup foo

  323. chimmychonga Says:

    seriously.. shut up! the economy dont need you…

  324. chimmychonga Says:

    your pathetic.(:

  325. candacimo Says:

    uhmmm. you sir, are wrong….. leave me alone!!

  326. hi guys, its meee Says:

    wow. arguing on this

  327. hi guys, its meee Says:

    stupid fools… wow…. FAIL, EPIC FAIL!!!

  328. brittany Says:

    its hell guys

  329. Helena and Robin Says:

    Hello we are from New Zealand and this whole blog thing has entertained us for the last hour. hilarious. what a shame dave didn’t return. Best thing we have stumbled on in a long long long time. thanks for the laughs

  330. Helkin Says:

    Well… reading this was a waste. david was funny tho..

  331. zail leron Says:

    amazed come after i see photos of the burning crater
    and if everybody calls it gate of hell’i’m thinking of hell as much of this for bible says no comparison about hell….

  332. Matt Says:

    I just would like to say that I laughed for over an hour reading all of these comments. All these people fighting on a random blog who think they are smart really can turn a bad night into a very entertaining ones. A special thanks to David for giving me this much needed boost to make me realize no matter what, I will always be above others (I think we all know who I mean)

  333. nowfel bin alam Says:

    I think its harmful not to close its burning.besides this i m astonished by knowing a mystery like darvaza.

  334. Lindenholt Says:

    ACTUALLY PRETTY COOL!!!

  335. S. Grim Says:

    Why don’t they cap it and suffocate the flames, seems a very big waste of natural gas, and toxic to our earth.

  336. Craig Says:

    Ha ha, take a bow people, that was brilliant- couldn’t t stop reading, now I ve wasted a good chunk of my Sunday
    Thanks again

  337. Max Says:

    Holy shit, I just come here to read about this crater and run into this discussion. Fuck the internet, seriously.

  338. Metis Warrior Says:

    HAHAHA….. After years I came back and read that David is a Butch!! FML
    I must have done something right.

  339. Tim Says:

    As for getting into Turkmenistan, they mentioned it’s relatively safe–except for the fact that Turkmenistan is an authoritarian regime. (Google or Bing “Saparmurat Niyazov” for an interesting read)

  340. P. Says:

    Lavos lives!

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